Once he took the field we look totally vulnerable in ALL aspects of the game. I appreciate this is a day to celebrate but looking forward this lad needs replacing. Stunning that he has an England call up and very worrying.

His delivery is poor, he has no pace and cannot guide us round the pitch. Tommy came on and off his first 3 plays we put a move on and score. With MM at 9 once again we simply hang on.

Pundits are starting to question our fitness levels after 25 minutes this coincides with MM entering the field.

With the best will in the world the lad is a liability and will cost us in the future if he is to remain our second hooker.

Jon

It made no difference really, your new lad in the middle was outstanding for you today as well as the 2 lads that made their debuts for you on the wings. Why were they wearing different kits to the rest of your players though, what was that all about, all green ?

And yet again, one single interchange is picked on, from all the other, much more significant ones, that happened around the same time.

Try harder.

Try harder at what. He is a Wigan fan with an opinion and a valid point. You did look decidedly ropey when MM came on.

Try harder? tommy went off we looked totally lost. Tommy comes back on and we start doing moves again within the first set he returns, and score a try.

I simply cannot see what he brings to the team. It happens more often than not when he comes on the field.

He plays in one of the most important positions in the game, and cannot organise or lead us round the field. Quite frankly he is not a good hooker.

It must be a total coincidence that time and time again we start matches like a house on fire and then interchange him for Tommy and drop off the pace massively.

Its not a coincidence, he's pap. He's simply not good enough - I was screaming for Maguire to put Tommy back on. He should be used as a 60 minute hooker, ESPECIALLY if he's rotating with McIlorum.

Lulu was my MOM today and I'm not his biggest fan.

Said the same myself. No structure when Tommy goes off.

We were pap in that period because we kept giving the ball away and conceding penalties. Can't blame MM for that. We just had to do a lot of defending, which is something the lad can do IMO.

Thing is we always seem to when he comes on, hence the sarcastic term "coincidence." For me our drop in performance is directly related to him coming onto the field.

As for his defence eye catching....yes, but misses a good few if they go to the side of him. Run at him he will nail you.

Spot on.

Like in the Grand Final you mean when we were outstanding all round when he was on the pitch as starting hooker?

What you seem to forget as well is the way a game goes is not all down to Wigan. Leeds game went up several notches when Burrows came on. He was outstanding and I reckon was in with a shout of Lace Todd.

I agree partly with the OP.
I don't think McIlorum was directly at fault for anything, but I have noticed this 'coincidence' myself on a couple of occasions (see quarter final), that when Tommy goes off, we go downhill. I'm not saying it's because McIlorum is crap, but I just think it's because Tommy is going off, who is superb IMO.

On many occasions when McIlorum replaces Leuluai the team start playing badly. It seems unlikely that one change can have such a huge negative impact on the side. Be that as it may, it's undeniably true that on quite a few occasions when that change is made the team starts to under-perform. It's clearly an issue that needs to be addressed.

McIllorum was outstanding in the gradfinal, no question. Sadly though that is the exception rather than the rule.

It is no coincidence that when he comes on we normally lose all direction on the field in both attack and defence.

Tommy went off today, I do not think we controlled field position or attacked in defence when he did.

The second he came back on he took us to a field position to set a platform for a move......a move that lead to a try.

watch the game again and look at the difference when TL comes back on, it is instantaneous.

As usual though it must be a coincidence that we struggle and teams get a foot in the door when he is on the field.

I've got to admit though, at about 55 mins I was calling for tommy to be brought on.

So it was Micky Mc s fault for Hoffman dropping ball in our own 10 and for faz giving penalties and them scoring off it , and his fault for Ryan hall smashes us down the wings . The full team fell to bits through gifting possession and try's ,last 2 or 3 games no one has said anything about him but then this game we have another 15 page thread. Is this gonna happen all season every other game .The same old Micky mc is crap thread.

Tommy was stand out from EVERY player yesterday not just Micky and some times I think Madge leaves him off too long but then again would tommy have the same impact if he didn't have such along time rested .

When tommy goes off we lose a lot of forward momentum. Micky just doesnt have the same skill to lead us up the pitch. Imagine if we were bringing the pig on instead of micky? We would not lose our momentum if that was the case imo. Its happened too often now for it to be coincidence.

Nothing wrong with MM imo. He gives us something different from the bench. I've always said TL is a 9 not a 7 and stick with that, he is a great player there, but MM does a job from the bench for us.

Get him in the second row and bring a proper hooker in! He has a good player - he is just NOT a good hooker.

I don't buy into McIllorum not being good enough for Wigan but Tommy is a world class player and I feel he should be on the field for the full 80 in some capacity.

Spot on post. Wigan lose alot when Tommy L leaves the field. Wigan blow teams away for the first twenty, Micky Mac comes on then the other team get's back into the game, Tommy L returns and Wigan pull away.

This.
Good player - Just in the wrong position.
Whatever the cause, our structure definitely seems to wobble significantly when Tommy L goes off.
Then he comes back on, and we seem to up the intensity by a factor of 3 again. (and lets not forget his massive 'Lammy style' defensive hits!)
Personally, i wouldnt simply point a finger at the Mickey Mac 'factor'.
Its more about the creativity we lose when LuLu goes off, for me.
And just how relieved were all of us when Madge put him back on yesterday???

I've backed Micky Mac in the past but have always thought Tommy isnt playing enough minutes. He probably did around 50 minutes or so yesterday but i'm sure he's capable of playing at least 65-70 mins and we're under using him and that really needs to be looked at.

As for Micky Mac i'd still have him in my 17. He's as tough as they come and hurts people in defence. He does make ground forward but just isn't in Tommy's class. I'd be happy to see him used in the backrow abit more tbh and it's a position i've thought he could excel in for a while.

THE McILLORUM COINCIDENCE could be the title of Robert Ludlum's next bestseller.