Just having a think whilst finally getting on with the Leeds match report.

We have a chance to go top on Wednesday and I think most sensible Wigan and Rugby League fans would find it hard to believe how Warrington can have played so well this season yet amazingly could find themselves in second place later this week.

On paper I still think Wire should be about 4 points clear, like we were this time last year, but what we are proving is perhaps a little bit of extra mental strength.

It's rare that Warrington have been in tight defensive games this year but when it's happened (Catalan, Hull, Salford, maybe even Hudds away) they haven't nicked the win. They did nick one against Hull KR in fairness but those other games have cost them a buffer at the top of the table.

Then when you look at us - Ok we definetly lost a point in Cardiff v Saints and at Cas last month but look at the points we've rescused.

Hull (H) - They were doing a cracking job on us. 12-8 down with 13 to play and down to 12 men. We nicked a 14-12 win.

Hudds (A) - Not really a rescue effort but to go there without Sam Tomkins, Pat Richards, Paul Deacon, Stuart Fielden, Joel Tomkins and Brett Finch and claim 2 points was a huge effort.

Leeds (A) - The opposite of Cas (A). 22-4 down with 20 to go. Even 22-14 down with 2 minutes and 10 seconds left we earned a point from nothing.

Saints (H) - 56 seconds away from defeat we scored to claim the win.

Even on Friday we perhaps earned two points we shouldn't have done with some luck.

So I reckon theirs 9 points there we easily could have lost. That would have left us in 6th and Warrington would have had their 4 point lead at the top of the table (before today's game at least), and had they nicked their tight games they'd have been miles ahead.

This is not a go at Warrington thread, I'm just highlighting that those small efforts show that our title was not a fluke last year and I think they may serve us well towards the back end of the season and perhaps highlights why we have the chance to get ahead on Wednesday!

Thanks Bilko... Great points well made.... I think that too often people have pointed to the "Points scored" column in the Warrington record, and not at the "Games lost". Mental fragility is a very difficult thing to pin down, but for all Warrington points scored, they have yet to be tested succesfully at the playoff stage of the competition. For all our failings over the last five seasons, we have had success in the playoffs, Warrington have not. All points to a fascinating run in, with lots to look forward too.

Wire are just a different animal this year. Even last year when they really looked a quality side, they've gone up another level this year.

I can't figure out how we have a chance to go top.

Its a valid point about the playoffs, but they clearly have some pedigree in knockout games given their recent CC wins. Two contender race as far as I can see - a ruthless front runner against a durable machine.

Win on Wednesday. Simples!

It's different though. Winning the cup in recent years has been win, (week off), win, (week off), win, (11 weeks or so off), win (3 weeks off), win. It's not on the same level with needing to win 2/3/4 games in a row against the best opposition!

They are certainly a massive threat though, particularly because their goal kicking is not awful like it was last year. They need to keep Hodgson fit though!

Don't disagree - they are by no means unbeatable and inconsistency week to week has been a perennial Warrington problem. I'm just a little concerned about their ability to blow teams away quickly - Wigan will have to be on form to match them. I think if both teams play at their best (unlike at the DW) that Wigan can edge it, as we seem to thrive in close games and I can see Warrington getting frustrated and ragged if they fail to put points on the board early.

Was it Nobles last year when we could win a close game? Wasnt it something like nine games we lost within 6 points, if we had won them all we would have been top if i remember correctly

Close games in 2009 that we lost

Wakefield (H) - Lost 06-12
Hull (A) - Lost 10-18
Cas (H) - Lost 22-28
Hudds (H) - Lost 08-22
St Helens (H) - Lost 12-19
Hull KR (H) - Lost 12-20
Warrington (A) - Lost 08-16
Celtic (A) - Lost 16-22
St Helens (A) - Lost 06-10
St Helens (A - Play Off) - Lost 10-14

Yeh i thought so, shows how important having a cool head and a bit of expirence in close games is

As you say these are the qualities of champion teams

I'll just rebump this thread because that tonight would have been a miserable defeat under Noble. I'll take a miserable victory!

It will be interesting to see how we go against London...sorry ...Harlequins at the weekend, the last 2 games we haven't played particualrly well by our standards yet have beaten 2 teams who have played above their recent standard, is this a sign of a champion team ?, if we manage to pick up 4pts from Quins and Wakey then the last few weeks will have been very succesful and hopefully we will have got over our dip in form with maximum points

That tells its own story right there. If maguire was in charge theres no way we would of lose to Wakey, Cas, Hull KR (all at home) and Crusaders away!

Still havn't seen wire have to grind out a win in the big games. Be interesting to see them in a tight game against the best sides. Thats what happens in the play-offs.

It's well known in that Association Football game that a team playing badly and still winning are going well (United did it loads last season) and are ones to keep an eye on.

But - that's great in a 'league leaders win the title' sport, but in a knock-out play-off format you're asking for trouble. I still think we'll come good. We've been improving barring a couple of wobbly efforts. Play like we did against Hudds and we'll only be looking to Wire as challengers.

Couple of there fans are saying the same on facebook.

"wigan are winning when playing badly..when we play badly we lose"

Warrington are just good at 'bullying' lesser teams.

Cant beleive this hasnt turned into a willy measuring thread yet.

Bilko makes some good points there concerning Warrington this season, we have lost a couple of games this year that in reality we should have won with ease, we have not really had to grind out a win against the top teams.

Wigan or Warrington will win the league, it pains me to say Wigan will edge it due to the slightly easier run in, the cup game will have a bearing on the outcome as the winners of that will be favourites to go on to win the final which will detract slightly from the league, however if Warrington win the cup game our 2 games around the CC final weekend are the biggest of the run in Cats away week before and Wigan the week after, 2 potential slipups which will give Wigan the league.( the reverse will happen if Wigan win CC game).

We really need to keep our mental approach to all games at the intensity of the big ones (something that we have not done on numerous occassions with disasterous results).

Guess you missed the Saints game.

apparently we shouldnt ever win because of our defensive style, and technique,
god only knows what people are finding to be wrong with out defense

You are talking a lot of sense, I was confident of the league win last year knowing that Wire would be side tracked by the CC. The games the week before and the week after are killer games for the CC finalists. If you look at the SL fixtures you would say Wigan have the easier run in with more home games. A challenge cup semi and final would in my opinion then pass the league leaders shield to the Wire. A Wire win on friday will make it a clear two horse race for the top spot.

The constant bitterness between some of the Wigan and Wire fans takes the gloss off the fact that the two premier clubs in SL at the moment are Wigan and Wire and after so many years of Saints/Rhinos and Bulls dominance its a welcome change

canonrebel is spot on with his comments, its a great post. I said exactly the same thing on the wire site but it turned into the usual nonsense.

Wire have played some brilliant stuff this season but as has been said earlier Wigan have ground some ugly wins out when not playing well just like all champion sides in any sport should do. When Wire have been off colour there have been shocks, eg Salford.

We've been beaten by Hudds twice, this season that's not too shameful considering Hudds early form, beaten by Catalans who look very strong and physical.

Salford was straight after the Exiles game in which i think none of the top teams won that week.

Hull FC has been our only real blip, first 20 minutes looked like we were going to batter them, then for some mysterious reason dropped off and were rightly beaten.

Close games Hull KR at home and Saints at home both could have gone either way.

The thing is we have actually had plenty of bad games this season yet still put in big scores regardless.
The last game Cas away for instance, the players, coaches and fans said we looked flat and off yet still scored 48 points.

A bad day at the office see us concede easy tries, going forward we have had flashes of brilliance even on the worst of days, the Hull FC game had us in numerous try scoring positions with dropped ball and errors at key crucial points which on another day could have seen us take 2 points.

yeah but we drew, n u lost

Brilliant, simple yet profound, informative and grammatically correct to boot.

My point being that even though we lost and you drew, we were all off colour that week.