Once again in the big game i failed to see what impact TL has for us. Once Deacon left the pitch, so did our kicking game. TL put some absolute shockers in on the fifth tackle where the leeds wingers/full back didnt have to move to catch.

Im not saying he was the only one who played very poorly, Joel has the worst game of his season, but in a position such as Scrum Half we need to have him controlling and owning the game.

I agree about the kicking game - he is probably the worst field kicker in SL - hardly news though but to be fair he did struggle as he was trying to play 6 and 7 as Lockers adds nothing at 6. And when Riddel was off the field sadly we lack any direction whatsoever as McIllorum was very poor.

Just about everything had to go via Tommy and from about halfway through the 2nd half he was knackered - and he did take a couple of very big hits.

I am far from Tommy L's biggest fan but I though he tried hard just need some help at times which was lacking. The game was crying out for getting Sam at 6 to add some support/direction.

He's not been in the best form for a couple of months now and he needs to step it up pretty quickly. He had a shocker last night and his kicking was embarrasingly poor. He's a top player when he finds his form but he really needs to start taking these games by the scruff of the neck.

Another player who I believe hasn't been at his best for a little while is Sean O'Loughlin. I actually thought he had his best game for a while last night but he isn't on his early season form.

I don't think us having a weeks rest every other week has done us many favours tbh.

Exactly why we need to bring Sam back to 6 as our main pivot next week

And also why I can't wait to have Finch on board next season.

Yeah a good few players and the team as a whole is nowhere near at its best. 80 minutes rugby is exactly what we need not another week off. I am confident we can put in a good performance next week to beat Hull KR and back it up with a near perfect performance the week after to beat whoever we play. If we lose next week or the week after then there is only one thing for it, bring back Brian Noble - the playoff king.

im also worried for next season as tommy is probably going to play long spells at hooker and i think it shows we are a diffrent team when piggy is on the field we need a world class hooker IMO

This has been highlighted in recent games. We really lose our way when Piggy is off the field. He's been invaluable to us this season.

we do i think we need a world class hooker not only for us but to bring mcilorum on in his development tommy is not what we need

i like mickey mac for his committment, but tonight showed he hasn't improved, some of his passes from play the ball where awful, to me finch will replace tommy at 7 next season, but tommy and mickey sharing the 9 shirt is going to cause us problems. we need a class hooker and another prop to replace prescott, he has had enough chances and hasn't progressed, once fielden and coley went off we struggled big time.

TBH I've never rated him and I dont see why everyone else thinks so high of him last night for me he played no different to how he usually does.

Agree, and will take away much of what you have gained in the pack for 2011 IMO.

Couldn't agree more.

To have a truly top class pack of forwards, you need a top No 9 directing them around the park.

FINCH SOS pull sum strings ian

Perhaps given a season in the role, Tommy will be able to do that. To be fair to him, he hasn't consistently played 9 for Wigan. He's pretty over-rated though IMO, can't doubt his bravery or commitment but I think as a player he is limited.

And yet he still makes the NZ squad ahead of Rangi Chase.

Hopefully he will go AWOL in 4 nations too.

I know Wigan are stil keen to replace Riddell if someone suitable becomes available.

[url=http://viewtopic.php?f=28&t=432783&start=8Groundhog Day[/url

Tommy has got the quality but just doesnt seem to be able to do it consistantly. I cant see MM going into next season with Tommy and Micky sharing the hooker role, that would be naive imo.

I think your being a bit harsh on Tommy, Craig. I agree he went missing last night but I think it was difficult for him to control things when Deacon went off, we know Tommy isn't the player to lead us round the pitch, he never has done and never will do. That is why things were going nicely when Deacon was on the pitch as we was using set plays that they clearly had been working on, you only need to look at Sams 2nd try for the build up to that. I do agree though that he went missing, but had he of had Deacon still along side him who knows, all ifs and buts now but Tommy on his own can't be blamed as he was left to try and control things himself which we know he can't do.

If he can't do it, he's no role in the team in my view. Suppose this is why we've signed Finch.

Youll find that a lot of top players go missing when the game is lost.

So we lost it at 20-14?

It's the same old story with Tommy. Yes he's a good RL player but he's not a 7! It's clear that without someone to carry him in the role he can't organise or kick. These are two of the main duties of a 7!

Barrett carried him when it came to organisation, so does Sam and Deacon. Time and time again it becomes evident that he's not a 7 when the duties fall on his shoulder alone.

So where do you play him? Not quick enough to play as a second reciever stand off, or anywhere else in our backs. Not big enough to play anywhere in our pack bar hooker.

I believe Tommy has the skills and understanding to become a great 9 in time, but let's faace it, he's never a 7.

Sam is causing us a headache for all the right reasons, he's outstanding at 1 and at 6, for me the way he picks his spots and attacks the line on an almost free role from 1 really makes him a threat, but as a 6 he can help organise and attack from the line.

Ideally next season Roberts will re-discover his great form and play 1 so Sam can partner a ball playing Finch at 7.

With this I'd like to see Wigan play the way they did with Edwards and Greg with Sam attacking as a second receiver attacking the line with pace as a running half.
If Wigan are to play split halves then I'd like to see Deacon and Finch control a half of the field each and have Sam attacking from FB.

Interesting. I would think that would secure Sam the #1 shirt, but assuming we dont replace Riddell then I assume Tommy will play #9.

He was poor last night, his kicking in particular helped Leeds, but this is why we have bought Finch and potentially why i'd pick Phelps over Roberts for Friday, as it also gives us the option of leaving Sam @ 1/