I've taken this off the Terry Newton topic as i thought it may get lost in all the other talk on recreational drugs vs. enhancers.

What do people think turns a great player into being a Wigan legend?

I’ve seen that players like Boston, Edwards, Radders and Hanley are classed as Wigan legends but others like Newton maybe aren’t. Where do players like Bell, Offiah, Robinson, Bell or Wane fit into the equation?

Is talent alone enough to make someone a Wigan legend as that would most defiantly make Hanley Wigan’s greatest ever wouldn’t it? Or do other factors such as length of service, medals or passion to come into it?

Not to pick on Hanley to much but surly he wasn’t as loyal to the club or passionate about it as some other players have been? Although an undoubted great player he couldn’t have won any medals or awards without the rest of the great players around him right?

Vague question I know but it’s interesting to see others opinions as for me a player like Newton is a club legend. His passion for the club is never in question and his talent makes him one of the best hookers we’ve ever had. Although his length or service and medal count don’t stand up to others before him these things were arguably out of his hands right?

Again it doesn’t have to necessarily be about Newton but it applies to other players as well like the ones mentioned above.

I would think the older generation on here would be better suited to class the legends.

In the last 10 years I would say Rads, Faz and maybe Barrett.
Last 20 add Edwards, Offiah, Robinson etc

You get the fans favourites like Feka, Newton and Skerrett who are legends in some peoples eyes yet just a flash in the pan in others.

IMO if Terry Newton would have stayed at Wigan there is no reason why he wouldn't have become a legend.

In my view Barrett is about as big a legend at Wigan as Andrew Johns can be classed at Warrington.

All time legend has to be Jim Sullivan. The man took our club from also rans to the greatest club in the game that it remains today. Also built St Helens into the second greatest club on this side of the world anyway.

Newton was never good enough to be a legend in my opinion. He was always a fairly limited rugby player who often resorted to thuggery when things went against him or when players got the better of him, on other occasions he simply went missing. He wasnt a patch on Cunningham who could be considered a legend amongst the Saints fans and shouldnt be mentioned in the same breath as some of the Wigan legends you mention.

I'd argue with your placings but Jim Sullivan = Legend.

Wonder what a good definition of a legend would be in Rugby League terms - for me it's people who are remembered or will be remembered long after there time - in Wigans case players like Hanley and Edwards are definetly in that class. Players like Newton and Barrett are merely good players in a long list of other good players

Look at the legends flag, that says it all. Newton does not qualify in the top 100.

I knew you'd back me up

How do you qualify then?

What is it that turns a player into a legend?

I don't think you can quantify what makes a legend. It could be being a great player like hanley but kenny was a great player but half a season doesn't make him a Wigan legend. Time spent at the club? Well cassidy won't be a legend like radders. Passion for the club? Higham gave 100% every game but he isn't a legend.

To me it's a mixture of all of those plus, and I hate to use this term, a little bit of the x factor.

Players who I've seen and I would describe as Wigan legends are;
Edwards
Hanley
West
Farrell
Radlinski
Bell

not strictly players but legends none the less
Lindsey
Monie
Lowe

And Henderson Gill will always be a legend to me.

You've got one in your avatar.


Why do you think he is universally claimed by Wigan fans as a legend?

A legend must....

Be a talented rugby league player and be remembered and respected by OTHER fans.
Commited to which ever club/clubs he is at.
Peak for longer than the average player.
Be at a club for at least 3 years before being classed as a club legend.
Impact on the club as a whole whether that be just as a player, winning trophies, as a coach, backroom staff... etc.

Only a few players can fall into this category IMO. The word legend is used far too much IMO.

Newton, Barrett and Kenny are all fantastic players, really good players, great players. But none are legends of Wigan.

Jim Sullivan, Andy Farrell, Shaun Edwards are the three names which stick out for me.

A mixture of things i gues which would differ from individual to individual.

1st Wigan's most decorated son
2nd He wore his heart on his sleeve
3rd He was a great rugby player if not maybe as good as others tbf but still a dam fine athlete.
4th True professional in his time here.

Not all of those easily apply to all legends however. I certainly wouldn't label Hanley under any of those apart from medal count and talent.

What’s the difference for example in Boston and Offiah?

Personally I think it goes beyond respect. The word I would used is admired, that's what makes a legend IMHO.

So to answer the original question some players you liked watching play the game, a small number you admired. This of course will vary from people to people, however, there are some players, eg Radders, that are widely admired and therefore can rightly be classed as legends I think.

Bell was my hero as a kid.

and always will be a wigan legend in my mind.

I don't admire Long, Wellens and KFC but they are legends and I respect them.

Even though he didn't play a full season I'd have Brett Kenny down as a Wigan legend for two main reasons:

1. He basically singled handed, dragged a very mediocre team to the club's first major trophy in 20 years - kickstarting the golden era.
2. He put in one of the finest ever performances in the cup final (when it was the trophy everyone wanted to win)

It's not always about length of time at the club, it's also what someone did for the club. The bloke has hero status in my household.

Brian,do you think any of the current crop of players will be considered 'legends' in time, Lockers ?, Sam ?, Paaaat ?,.......... its a hell of a title to live up to !!!!!

I think apart from the obvious e.g. Boston, Farrell etc, whether someone can be classed as a legend or not is very much a matter of opinion.

For example, Botica is a legend in my eyes simply because he was my favourite player when I first went to watch matches and without that I may not have been inspired to play for the last 15 years. I'll therefore always regard him as highly as other widely accepted legends, even if he was not necessarily as talented on the pitch.

not just a legend of a player but a legend in terms of inspiration and toughness as well. As the flags states "The Wigan Way" was a term invented for the likes of deano.

I don’t think anyone can be classed as a true legend until after the fact.

I am only 30 (only!!!) so when I began watching Wigan my Favourite player was Dean Bell. Now when I was stood in CP watching him from the sidelines I never really had a concept of just what an influence he had on the team. At the time he was, in reality, just another excellent player in a team full of excellent players.
But as the years pass I am reminded of his individual brilliance. The sheer bravery of the man coupled with (what I consider to be) one of the toughest characters ever to grace a RL field. I could now list a many of my favourite moments from watching Mean Dean..........But I do not have to because Dean is a TRUE legend and most of you will know already.
It is only after the years pass that you can look back on a player’s career and reflect on their individual contribution. This thinking is not a conscious thing, it is just that you are naturally inclined to remember the Players who were the very ,very best. These are the players that you babble on about after a few pints, recalling your memories of them with as much exaggeration as admiration. Legends are the players you will tell your Kids and their grand kids about with an equal amount of exaggeration and admiration. In turn your Kids will think of the player in an almost mythical fashion, and as the years go by the players reputation refuses to diminish and if anything grows larger and larger.

This is how I feel about Billy B, Jim Sullivan etc. I have never seen them play (apart from the odd VHS tape) but I know they hold legendary status from the older generations who passed the tales down to lads and lassies of my age group.
So with this in mind I would say give it a few years before we determine if there are any legends the current setup or indeed in the last few years.

I think a legend is someone who is looked at rerospectively as a great influence or servant to a club. Each club wil have 'legends' that are not necessarily recognised as such by other fans. I also think it is quite personal. For example i would class Ged Byrne and Adrian Shelford as wigan legends , but i know others may not. I don't care, as this is personal to me. Dean Bell, Hanley, Gregory, Tuigamala(sp),edwards also can be classed as legends in my book, but maybe that is just 'my' era.

I know the likes of Boston ,Mctigue are also classed as legends by my father-in-law, but not seeing them 'live' it is difficult for me to judge them so.

I haven't really helped in this argument have i?

I can't class any of the current or recent players as legends yet as only time will tell. Hopefully the tompkins brothers will get there but you never know.

Doh! Yeah basically i agree with tugglesf78!

You are underestimating Hanley, he really could, and did win us some games almost on his own, games where we were getting thumped looked certain to lose, and he just decided screw this, we're going to win.

The guy really was that good in his heyday, the best british RL player of my lifetime, and one that would have been a legend in the NRL to. I've never seen a player like him (playing live), and I don't know if I will again.

I concur. It's the cultural impact a player leaves on the club and their legacy as you describe above. He's idolised as a Wigan great and forever associated with a truly special chapter in the club's history.
Had Wiganers seen anything as exciting in a Cherry & White jersey for 15 years prior to 84/85? I doubt it. That was his impact. A great.

As I've read somewhere (might be Wilson's Best Years of our Lives) he was the kind of rugby player you'd be in your dreams.