If so, who loses out?

Can't say we've missed him in the slightest.

After months of protesting how he isn't good enough, hopefully now people will see my point. Not been missed in the slightest.

I was constantly asking for him to the dropped to see what impact not having him in the squad would have on the team, and it turns out he's not been missed at all.

My next call...Riddell.

See how we do with McClorum/Tommy interchange with Tomkins/Smith at the halves.

Asking has be been missed is asking the wrong question.

The question that needs asking is has he been replaced by a significantly better player and the answer to that is no, assuming Bailey is the player in direct competiton for the place in the side.

Drop Bailey for Hansen and ask was Bailey being missed and the answer would probably be "no" as well.

So does this mean we have two sub-standard players competing for a 2nd row place? The answer to that is also "no" because people have unrealistic expectations of the quality of players we can sign all over the team.

Hansen is probably part of the long term plans of the club and will be part of the back row "squad" of Hansen, Hock, Lockers and J Tomkins for the next few years with the younger players from the junior sides pushing for the odd game here and there.

I just don't see the problem with this and at 23 he has plenty of time to improve.

Dave

My question was based on current form, that's all.

Phil Bailey

Over rated and Over paid

I agree 100%. a good SQUAD player!

And I agree Alex. I think your question was fair.

The questions Daveo asked are the one's which I feel dodge the initial point.
Is Hansen been missed? The answer is no, he's not. Daveo then compared Hansen to Bailey diverting from the original question, simply because Hansen often has been compared to Bailey, this isn't the point or question.

For a point of discussion, on the field I think Bailey is better, offers more in attack and is better with ball in hand, it was Bailey would steadied the ship by moving to centre and doing a good job there.

Daveo, to mention people thinking we are unrealistic with our players and wants. I don't believe this is the case, after all we operate under the same salary cap, so it isn't unrealistic to compare players or teams to others who have the same cap? I don't think so.

Ignoring that, Daveo mentions Hansen as a backrow squad member, but do we need him when we have the likes of Tomkins, Lockers, Hock, Flanny, Mossop, Farrell etc? If it's quite clear he isn't missed (leading back to the question) is there room for him when other might offer more and might be missed when they're not selected?

I think the last two games spoke volumes.

There's not much between them this season.

[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=1183&hs2=2009&hp2=1974&stat=tries&season=2009[/url

In short, Bailey slightly better in attack (yards, offloads) whereas Hansen puts in more tackles.

At the moment, I'd take Bailey on form. Hansen's getting close to the point where he needs to do more with ball in hand justify his position as "long-term" squad player.

The original question js IMO fairly pointless. Did we miss Carmont v Wakefield? No and so what do we conclude? Nothing meaningful I would say. Same here with Hansen IMO.

You are completely over stating the case against Hansen. He has been a very good player for us over the last few seasons and if (and it is only "if"icon_wink.gif his form has tailed off a bit lately writing him off is premature.

For some reason you don't like Hasnen but your comparision with Bailey shows your bias as since when has Bailey offered more in attack and been better with ball in hand? If anything the major criticism of Bailey has been he has not not very good in either department. All of a sudden the implication is he has become a ball playing running 2nd row! No he has not!

And to mention Flanny, Mossop, Farrell as suggesting we don't need Hansen as a squad member is ridiculous given two of them have no first team experience and the other very little. You have no idea how they would stack up in comparison.

Anyway Hansen is contracted beyond this season, Bailey isn't so if you want to see any of those young players get a run out it will be in place of Bailey in 2010. If they ultimately take Hansens place as they turn out better players then fine but there is no argument against Hansen based on these young players prospects at the minute.

In the meantime I will back Hansen to prove you wrong.

Dave

The question is simple Dave.



If Hansen is to come back in, who drops out?

Yet you made the very same point last season re: O'Loughlin, Dave....go figure!

Hansen is the sort of player EVERY SL team needs. hes an excellent squad player. is he good enough to make it to the next level? personally, i doubt it but you know exactly what you get with him. hes a good, hard working player who plays with pride. to get rid would be a mistake BUT, you dont change a winning team so until someones form drops he'll have to take a back seat.

And he also in this post says we have to be realistic with the Salary Cap yet in other posts says we should go out and buy 2 x more props & a 6 and be challenging for Top Honours Immediately!

FWIW I agree with him on the Hansen post with regards to Hansen being here long term whilst Bailey isn't.

If I had to pick one of them for this Saturday I would Pick Bailey, We are a better team with him in it at the moment.

If I had to pick one for the next 3 years after this I would go with Hansen for obvious reasons such as Youth and Value for money.

At the moment no-one.

Tomkins, Hock, Lockers are all playing well. Bailey has been okay as well.

The more interesting question for me is who drops out should Carmont come back?

Richards, Roberts, Ainscough, Phelps, Gleeson, Carmont - 1 must drop out.

I'd agree with you there.

However, when Liam Farrell, & Lee Mossop are knocking on the door the debate arises again.

Roberts for me.

Agreed.

Phelps
Ainscough
Gleeson
Carmont
Richards

That looks very strong to me.

And 2-3 years for them to prove their worth taking them to 21ish whilst Hansen does the Frontline Job & they are the Back up's or pushing him for his place.

2 x years down the line we have the same decision again!
And if Farrell/Mossop et al are better value for money or Significantly better players then we go with them.

Isn't it good to have Competition! Maybe IL is starting to get some things right???

Your 2 posts on this topic sum up my feelings on it also.

At the moment nobody should be dropped for him, but a poor game from Bailey will see him get his chance again hopefully. At the moment the shirt is Baileys and there is not much he can do about it apart from get his head down and take his chance if it comes again.

Same goes for the young lads coming through i expect Bailey to go at the end of the year and on merrit Hansen takes that role on, it is then up to him to perform or the younger guys get a look in and given they are younger if they do get the shirt and make it theres permanently at that point Hansen becomes expendable but not before.

This is the crucial point - we're now a proper squad, and I think it's something that both we and the Wigan team need to get used to.

A couple of years ago, if someone got injured we were in trouble. Now we seem to have pretty decent lads qeueing up for most positions.

Perhaps we shouldn't get lulled into thinking that, just because a guy's lost his place, that's the end of him at Wigan. Hopefully they'll be encouraged to fight their way back in rather than go bleating to their mates who post on message boards (that's not aimed at anyone on here by the way).

Injuries happen, form falters, etc. I think all our regular first-teamers will see plenty more action this season. And personally I'm quite happy at that prospect.

Which is one of the main points.

For next year we have a starting back 3 of

Hock Tomkins
Lockers.

With Hansen Farrell Mossop Flanny plus others all wanting to play first team.

Is Hansen missed when he's not played? No. The last two games have made this evident.

So how about giving one of the other lads a run in the second row and see how they go? If Hansen isn't missed, isn't it a sign that we should give the other lads a run out instead? Why halt their progress giving Hansen a place instead?

Again, isn't competion for places a wonderful thing!

It doesn't really matter for me who he leaves out etc as someone will always criticise his decisions one way or another!
The main thing is, they all know they have to keep playing well otherwise!

Cue DaveO saying he will only drop the young players and not his favourites!

Now now, don't make things up to try and make a point.

There is an obvious need to sort the props out but if you won't be able to point to a post of mine where I say we go and get them now regardless of the salary cap. Could we have got a prop or two had we not signed several of the backs signed recently such as Gleeson, Smith and Roberts? Possibly but that is a different debate and not the same thing as what you suggest I said. To try and suggest I am being inconsistent by quoting the salary cap as a reason why we can't have super stars on all back row positions yet want to ignore it and sign two props is made up nonsense.

Dave

Do all you posts require a reference to me? Or are you obsessed? Do I have a stalker?

Dave

Bailey and if he did, he would not be missed either.

Dave