I see a trend with a lot of the posts on this site, and the constant overrating of our players. And at the same time the slagging off the coach or management.

Lets look these two issues...

For the last 2yrs we've stated the want for an enforcer prop. But what or who did Wigan sign? Stu Fielden.

At the time the best prop in the league, if not the RL, and he's from the UK and in his prime, what a signing. But what has Mr Fielden produced? Very little.

I'm sick and tired of people praising him for basically the basics, he's an average prop in an average league. Why do you think our team is having problems? weak pack that can't bully their opposing pack around the field.

Hock-Very patchy. Moments of great play and moments of madness. Until he gets this sorted he's not as good people rate him as.

Hansen-over all average, great in defence, clueless in attack.

Lockers-Average to decent player. too much pressure on him, the club asks too much of him to be a loose and a capt. not good enough to carry so much on his shoulders.

Coley-Should be a good hardworking prop, but is far down the list of props in the league. No place at Wigan.

Sam Tomkins-Please lets be realistic with Sam. He has bags of talent and potential, but his praise on here is going to far. Anyone would think he's in Barretts league. No where near at this point. He will be good, but he didn't do anything against Leeds.

Roberts-For an experienced winger/fb he is poor under the high ball, Would like to see more from what so far has been an average winger.

Bailey-Average. Decent in defense but lets face it, anyone in SL should be.

This is not a total rant, more of a reality check.. On the otherhand

Tommy, Joel, Carmont, Ainscough look like they fit right in at SL level and haven't been completely overrated on here.

Just remember, this is a reason we have only won twice all season.

Oh come on mate, he played behind a well and truly beaten pack.

pretty fair assessment mate.

tbh tho im as excited about sam tompkins as i am about ainscough and think he possibly is the next big thing.......no barrett at the moment granted, but in time he could be up to that standard.

Hock your bang right.....see the other topic on here i posted on.....the way wiganers build hock up is ridiculous....he is nothing but a poor to average second rower and I cant understand the over hyping of hock.

Rest of the squad youve got a bang on assessment of IMO

Overall, a great post though id say.

Which is one of the points he's making. Coley and Fielden who get more game time then O'Carroll and Prescott are the main reason for this. Yet people still rate Fielden.

I'd get rid of Fielden once his contract is up. I'm affraid just not pulling the performances out the bag. Who knows, maybe this long contract has been detrimental to his form, maybe when it's coming close to renewal time he may improve. Not saying he's doing it on purpose but that maybe the thing to spark him back to life.

If you ask me, far too many maybes in that equation.

IMO the fielden equation is simple.....he burned himself out at the age of 26/7 after 10 years dominating the front row at bratfut. Realistically he still wants to play and give his all, but he just isnt as fast, strong and imposing as he was.

I do feel sorry for him at times, because call him what you want, he is one of the few players we have who goes out and gives everything he has week in week out.

On top of that....i know its almost cliched now....but willie mason flooring him massively damaged his confidence. Prior to that fielden was an enforcer....he had a similar sort of agression to jamie peacock and wasnt scared of getting stuck in.....look at his battles with barrie mac to see how fielden has changed. Being knocked down like that damaged his confidence massively IMO, and i dont think he believes he is as strong as he used to be, which psycologically has also had an affect on his game.

bring in a new team i say, god sake there winning wait until the end of the season

Only 2 out 6 games.

Good post

I do think if he was on Coley's wage he wouldn't get the criticism he does now

I do still rate him and think he stil has it in him to be the best prop in the league

In the 2nd half of last season he was up there in the top 3 props in super league without doubt IMO

Agree with most points.

It was a risky post, risked upsetting lots of fans.

But there are positives with out squad, but I'm not slagging off Sam in the slightest. I think there is an element of sadness that at this stage alot of our hopes and dreams are resting on the shoulders of a young lad.

Not a Capt, not a seasoned halfback or a Sh!thouse prop, Sam will do us all proud, but he can't do it on this own.

As the team gets more desperate so does Hock because he is trying anything to lift the team and create something because he knows he is one of Wigan's few "go to" players. He is a world class player and one of the best second row forwards in super league and has one of the best offloads in the game. In a Saints or Leeds side he would be devastating. Although he has his moments of madness he is not overrated.

Andy Coley and Phil Bailey's contracts are up at the end of the year - and this gives us chance to get rid of some of the average players in our side along with Cameron Phelps, Tim Smith and Richie Mathers.

I honestly believe that for as long as Brian Noble is here Stuart Fielden will be here.

Harrison Hansen I would agree with. His defense is great but in attack he offers little. Although against Bradford he did run some good lines in attack. He needs to improve in time for when his contract runs out as he will come under pressure from Lee Mossop and Liam Farrell in the reserves.

Sean O'loughlin would not recieve half the amount of stick he does if he wasn't the Wigan captain. He does not have the attributes IMO to be a captain and because of the pressure of this responsibility he tries to do too much during games which leads to errors and silly plays. Without this pressure we could see a much better Sean O'loughlin. He is an international quality player IMO.

Your right. Were lacking a leader big style. I rubbished it last season and said that it wasnt right, but looking back, had we been able to get wiki for this season he could have answered all our problems.....an enforcer prop with the capability to lead the team around the field....two of the main aspects we are severely lacking.....Yes it would have only been a short term fix, but whack a player like that into our current squad and we go from title pretenders to title challengers IMO

Without pulling your post apart Dave O Style most of the problems you state could and should be sorted out by our coaching department ,however our first team player don't seem to develope and improve year to year, with the same problems constantly rearing their heads be that slow starts , discipline , decision making and skills both in attack and defence .
We should be getting the the best from our current squad and we are not and if we were we would start to be consistent , maybe not world beaters but better than we are .

Gaz Hock has his qualities but this is exactly what the point is about.

How can he be world class when he has so many issues with his game? Offloads-can be tried at time when the pass isn't on or in a dodgy situation, result is a loss in possession.

For me a world class player has composure, something Gaz is lacking in his game when the going gets tough.

The coaches play the best team they can from the squad. They brought in players like Fielden.

They're putting out the best team possible and it's not performing and we (some fans) overrate them.

Only so much a coach can do, they should know the basics by now..

BLOODY HELL.....someone else in wigan is actually switched on about hocks shortcomings!!





exactly why hock is NOT a world class player

Gareth Hock is not overrated far from it.

He has had a great start to the season the his shortcomings which you mention like, offloading in silly situations has disappeared from his game in the past season IMO (apart from that brainfart on Friday night in our ingoal)

Leeds did well to contain Hock and they stopped him playing, making breaks and offloading. He kept trying and trying and came up with a try and one controversial disallowed try. Also Hock was still one of our better players on the night.

Hock is not world class and I was disappointed with his performance at the WC which was a big stage where I thought he could shine and show us what he can do. But in SL he is very good and is certainly not overrated.

It is amazing how one week Gareth Hock is a superstar the next minute he is overrated. The Leeds game Gareth Hock threw one daft ball in a moment of madness but he was still one of our best players and was a marked man throughout the game. He tries things and they sometimes come off for you and he is world class and sometimes they don't and he lacks composure. Most of the time our players aren't anticipating an offload and so it looks daft when he does offload.

Hock is playing really well and for us to play the expansive opportunistic game we crave, we need players to show some flair and individuality. If we are not prepared for the odd knock on or balls up, we should settle for the single minded approach that bored us so much round 1, 2 and 3. We should not call him for one moment of madness we should realise that so far this season I believe he has been quite composed for us. Yes with such an expansive player with so much flair about them he will make mistakes and rash judgements but unless we wish to take a retained, static approach to the game then we should accept that he will make mistakes but will create more tries and opportunities to score than he will throw a daft pass.

There was a defining moment in the Bradford game, a 30sec period which sums up his whole career.

He made a great break, ran right through the team showing a great step, good speed and strength-excellent, but then what happens next? he misses the pass and makes a mess of it.

When he has the composure to make the pass he'll be world class.

Please see the symbolism in this..

With composure and a couple of (extra) brain cells Hock would be the complete back rower and one of if not the best in the world

Thats one moment in a game where he was awesome. He made one mistake and he gets called for it, yet he sure as hell made up for it with what he did in the rest of the game and also against Harlequins.

Please see the symbolism in what I posted.

But he then rectified his mistake and scored in the next opportunity Wigan had.

In the interview after the match he accepts he was a bit greedy and should have passed. A mistake only becomes a mistake when you fail to learn from it.

Whether he is world class or not he is one of our best players & is one of the few with any creativity and flair about them.

Totallly agreed, but were is he going to find them cells from?