Fair enough - I don't think we're disagreeing a great deal in terms of them being on the slide. Just maybe about the degree of their drop off. You're right about 18 months having the potential to be a long time in sport too. It has to be given the amount of ground we had to make up to go past them - which we obviously have.

My view is simply that we shouldn't overdo their decline too early, especially when they're missing half a team. Injuries will probably stop them finishing in the top two, but with a few key players back they are still a force to be reckoned with, and I'd make them decent favourites against both Hull KR and Wire away because of what they've done in the past, and their ability to win big games. Even this season we can look to Good Friday as an example for how their defence and intensity can cause anyone problems.

I suppose this is a long winded way of saying that if I were a Saints fan, I'd feel pretty gloomy about their prospects for the next couple of years but actually feel pretty optimistic about doing something this campaign.

[quote="Stu M":11i77ylt]Good news with Delaney signing for 4 years, there was definite NRL interest in him. Seems that Knowles and Lees have signed new deals too which will be great news, hopefully announced soon. Get Stephens on a new deal and that’s the cornerstone of a decent pack.[/quote:11i77ylt] Delaney seems to get thrown around like a rag doll when he plays Wigan Stu. Great player to watch with his leg speed and bravery but hasn’t caused any problems. Adding size this off-season or a move to the back row maybe?

No doubting Delaney's guts but the style while dominating at junior level seems to have leveled off against often bigger players. Obviously he's got time to put size on and adapt but I do worry for him the way he plays. Maybe he's not got the help around him no doubting his heart.

Delaney is at a point where his career could go either way. He was dominant in the younger grades and made a great start to his first team career but as the opposition players have got to know his game, they've figured out how to deal with him reasonably comfortably and it's got to a point where he looks like he could damage himself if he doesn't change his running style. If he can do that, then nobody can doubt his commitment and he has talent, so he should kick on. I think Stephens looks a better prospect though. It's very early days for him but he's just awkward to deal with and I don't think he'll be figured out anything like as easily as teams did with Delaney. He needs to work on his fitness but if somebody gave me the option of having Delaney or Stephens at Wigan, I would go with Stephens without a doubt.

[quote="NickyKiss":18w2ue26]Delaney is at a point where his career could go either way. He was dominant in the younger grades and made a great start to his first team career but as the opposition players have got to know his game, they've figured out how to deal with him reasonably comfortably and it's got to a point where he looks like he could damage himself if he doesn't change his running style. If he can do that, then nobody can doubt his commitment and he has talent, so he should kick on. I think Stephens looks a better prospect though. It's very early days for him but he's just awkward to deal with and I don't think he'll be figured out anything like as easily as teams did with Delaney. He needs to work on his fitness but if somebody gave me the option of having Delaney or Stephens at Wigan, I would go with Stephens without a doubt.[/quote:18w2ue26] Very fair that. I agree that Delaney's running style needs working on. He struggled last season but then it came out that he had been struggling with a knee injury and that coincided with the time of the season that we had all the injuries in the forwards. He was absolutely flogged by Wellens and if I recall played about 75 mins in that hammering at Leigh, after being 50/50 for that game due to his knee. He did come back strong towards the end of the season and played well in that play off defeat to Warrington, he seemed to run stronger. He needs some size on him but he's still exceptionally young for a prop forward so lots of time on his side still. Re Stephens, I commented on Red Vee that he looked in really good shape from the pre-season videos that the club had released. His Dad posts on there and confirmed that he has lost 6kg. I think he is in for a really good season. Does need to improve his fitness which will undoubtedly be improved by his weight loss.

Delaney was excellent last year and definitely warrants a new deal, both for performances and to keep him away from any prying eyes. I think his running style was protecting an injury as has been alluded to above, he seemed to have sorted this out by the last games of the season so I've no concerns there. With that said he was massively over-exposed and it would be unfair to expect those performances on a regular basis from someone so young. Ideally both he and Stephens will be battling for that 4th spot in the rotation but it only takes one injury elsewhere for them both to be involved and that is too much to expect of both of them IMO. The problem with Delaney is that he is significantly ahead of where he should be, ideally we would bring in another prop to help with his (and Noah's) transition into the first team but he could rightfully expect to be considered a regular already and is presumably being paid as such. He will hopefully prove me wrong and maintain his standard of performance but I think we could do with another prop regardless.