Obviously what you say is correct...BUT, too often this is an excuse to do nothing. Our goal should be to acheive the largest possible crowds. Whether that catches Union or not isn't the point.

Maybe I'm a fantasist, but *one day* in the distant future, I can imagine 1000's of people in the North going to watch a GB-Aus test on a big screen in a stadium somewhere. Screw it, I am a fantasist...I can't see any hope in hell of getting rid of the clowns at the RFL and they are incapable of setting the sport on that path.

With the recent setbacks to 'expansion' a lot of voices in League are starting to say 'look we just have to accept our place as a provincial sport'. This may be true if all you're thinking about is geography, but it's not an excuse to fail to maximize what we can acheive.

RL could be run *so* much better. External factors are no excuse for terrible leadership. Too many people on these boards use "well we'll never compete with the RFU" as some sort of excuse for Nigel Wood - one the most unspiring people I've ever seen or heard. ( BTW, I'm not saying that's what you are arguing, its just a general point).

One thing I've never understood is why 'expansion' has to have anything to do with geography. Expansion to me is just about getting the maximum audience in RL stadia, I don't care where they live. I'd be just as happy to see 20k watching Wigan and 20k watching a revitalized Leigh, as 20k watching a new club in Bristol (say).

Our "dear leaders" at Red Hall are scared witless that a team will just run away with it every year like we did and as a result impose a ridiculously small salary cap to stifle the bigger teams. They shouldn't be surprised when their players want to jump ship to make the big bucks. Whether they succeed or not is moot as they know that they might as well try because if it doesn't come off they can always come back (eg Lee Smith, Karl Pryce, Chev Walker). Unfortunatly all this does is weaken the international game as as soon as any RL player shows a bit of promise they leave for union.

It does make you wonder whether the section of Leeds fans that booed Sam would be deliriously happy if he made the switch to union without thinking about the wider implications for RL?

The attendances at RL internationals will continue to dwindle as RL fans in this country have become more and more "club over country". And why shouldn't they? There's naff all pride in the national team. We all know what's going to happen at the 4N. We'll maybe win by 20-30 against Wales and get battered by Aus and NZ.

Yes it's obvious what's caused these threads on here, but the events of the past week or so have brought into focus wider issues affecting RL as a whole.

Put Barry Hearn in charge look what he's done to darts and snooker two sports that where struggling but aren't now ???

It doesn't help when the RFL send out a bucket load of marketing (to people who already know about it anyway) that has Thomas Leuluai as a f*cking centre.

What kind of centre !!!!

You cover some good points. If Widnes get things cracking again and are pulling in crowds, Saints and Salford have their attendences and profile boosted by new stadiums, then the north west is looking very healthy. If we could get Leigh sorted as well we'd look really good.
Quota systems and salary caps have forced clubs into investing in youth, so clubs are now creating their own, at least half decent youngsters, who'll at least play with pride for their clubs, which is what people really want to see.
If that was the case and an England game (like the Knights game last weekend at the LSV) was properly marketed by the RL, I'm sure we could start to get some decent crowds. Maybe even a [iEngland Supporters Club[/i could be started like your brigantes.
As lancastrians, we could take pride in supporting our country in way the yarkshire lot *spit* fail?

Expansion should start with the amature game, which is doing very well in certain areas like London, but the introduction of new clubs should only come when the demand and proven stabilty is there from the local area a la catalans. We have tried to force it too often. Fans from such areas can enjoy superleague on Sky by watching the northern clubs until such time their area can demand a SL francise.
We want a league of 14 healthy clubs, what ever their location.