I didn't claim it either.

I said they looked like a Ponzi scheme.

& today's ridiculous pronouncement further confirms that view.

So Wray spent about £250k on renting out Wembley and gave away the tickets to get a record crowd.



I suspect GF would refer to that as "marketing".



I'd be interested in the Brussels attendance for their "on the road game". I'd make a small wager it'll slight more than ours ......................... combined.

Keep the faith.

1. Saracens are building a 20 million stadium to call home
1a. London Broncos currently pay rent and are in negotiations to paye rent somewhere next year.
2. Saracens attracted 83,000+ to one game last year using discounted and free tickets as one of the ways to attract people. The game and attendance received loads of Publicity.
2a. Harlequins Rugby League attracted about 700 more fans to 26 home games in 2010 and 2011, using discounted and free tickets as one of the ways to attract people. The club struggle to get the attention of its own fans, let alone the media in the UK.
3. Saracens have just announced an 8 million pound sponsorship deal.
3a. London Broncos have finally managed to secure a paid sponsor for their shirt, 47 games after they last had one.
4. Saracens are actively looking at taking games to new venues and are very good at marketing these events.....including 83k at wembley
4a. This year, London Broncos achieved sub average crowds against Bradford and Hull when they took games on the road..... including a sub 3k gate at Orient.

What is it that upsets some people about the Union lot doing what the Broncos should be......why the need to deride their achievements?

What are the odds that in 12 months, Sarries will have seen between 80% capacity to full houses in all their games at Barnet, but cowgirl Nostalgist will tell is that all the tickets were freebies and it's a ponzie scheme?

It does amaze me when RL fans try to score points over the other code, based purely on jealousy......Sarries debt is patently manageable at present and their sponsors have backed them.....how's the situation at Bradford going?

It is possible that both Saracens & Broncos are poor off the field. Just throwing that out there.

Very possible......but I'd rather be as poor as Sarries rather than as poor as the Broncos.......
2011-2012...11 home games, on the road games, double headers and apparently free tickets.(Stats from BBC/SCRUM/STATBUNKER)
Exeter 10,854
Harlequins 83,761
Northampton 6,044
Leicester Tigers 7,265
Bath 5,799
Gloucester 7,555
London Irish 6,240
Sale Sharks 6,012
Newcastle Falcons 5,892
Worcester 5,937
London Wasps 55,437
200,796

From February 23rd, 2008 to today, The London SL club have played 61 home games including on the road games, double headers and free tickets and attracted 202,203 fans to games.

As you say, they might both be very badly run off the pitch, but I know I'd rather own our own stadium, have an 8 million quid sponsor and a marketing team that knows how to get 200k fans to 11 games rather than a series of idiots that has taken nearly 4 and a half years and 61 games to do the same.

Because they're transient.

& for all their marketing chutzpah their business model is ultimately as fecked as Broncos.

After all what is a trip to Brussels but Leyton with knobs on?

Actually creating artificial demand in a pokey stadium could well prove to be a masterstroke of sorts.

Although I've heard rumblings of discontent from actual fans about being forced into crappier seats than Vicarage Road by sheer necessity.

I'd also like to think there's a zealot out there giving the CEO grief about the non-existent 15,000 crowds promised.

11 On the road games for the London Broncos since the start of SL......51,432 fans in total.......this seasons efforts Leyton Orient (9,271) and Gillingham FC (11,582) saw 6,774 fans in attendance....32% of the available capacity.

King Baudouin Stadium holds 42,000 for soccer matches....32% is 13,440 fans. Do you reckon Sarries will get close to that...or as I suspect, get a full house.

Here's a tip for you.......look at the opposition......look at the time to get from Paris to Brussels by Train......look at the BIGGER picture.

Smart move by sarries......a game that would have struggled to get 5k in attendance will now attract a crowd of 40k........

Knock away if you must....I am looking forward to 2013 and Gus and the back-office team .v3 disproving any of my "flim flam"....but I won't hold by breath (don't let me stop you though)

Sarries averages: (after scouring the bloody web)
2011/12 = 18,254 over 11 games
2010/11 = 10,326 over 11 games
2009/10 = 24, 030 over 11 games

Since the claim was made.....578,710 fans have watched 33 home Guinness/Aviva premiership games....at an average of 17,536.

Whilst I am here.......April 9th 2000 up to July 21st 2012 and 161 home games is the time it has taken the London SL team to attract the same number of fans to their games.

But let's all larf at Sarries and their 1.3 million a year deal or their idea to take a game to a venue 1hr 20 minutes away from where the away team are......it's really funny

Bloody hell you've been busy overnight GF, thank god I'm not doing budget forecasts etc until next week, I've already had enough figures for one day.

Can you give us some stats on how many of your posts contain stats

100% of them miss the wood for the trees. You'd think he'd be able to see through marketing BS. Pretending another clubs fans are your own is desperate. If Gus proposed playing a home game in the M62 corridor he'd get laughed out court.

PS Up to now GF had wisely not included the massed ranks of McFly fans to back up his arguments. When the con man gets conned. Tut tut.

So to summarise.

gutterfax: "we can't carry on like this. Look what Sarries are doing, they're building for the future, why don't we copy them?"

Cowgirl Nostalgist: "We can't carry on like this. But we shouldn't copy Sarries, they're building a house of cards and heading for a fall."

Oh no it isn't. Brussels home to some great food, great beer and a nice few buildings to look at before and after the game. And it's also one of the home's of the european parliament.

Leyton wasn't when I lived near there and isn't now anywhere near as nice, beautiful nor has such nice beers as Brussels.

I suspect they'll have a lot more fans at their game than we did at our "road games". Nigel Wray must be doing something right. you don't make the millions he has being a fool, do you?

quite.

I wouldn't say either scenario is the right path.

All that counts at the end of the day is what WE DO AS A CLUB! not what Sarries may do/

If the RFL are going so far with Bradford it is time they made sure London gets it right once and for all, but then again they can't even get it right themselves when it comes to marketing. If we do not have the right staff to get it right then we should look at the very few Super League Clubs that get it right as well as other sports, not be obsessed with union.

Leyton does have one advantage over Brussels though.

The slim possibility of repeat custom.

I'd be amazed if the Barnet Globetrotters glean one extra fan out of this latest stunt.

Still padding your average attendance apparently works wonders ...

I imagine that Sarries latest 'stunt' is a further step towards them being the worldwide force in Rugby Union that Manchester United are in Football.

By taking a game to France and Belgium (and I think South Africa) they are appealing to a wider RU audience as Manchester United do when they tour wherever each summer.

I applaud them for the steps they've taken. If the Broncos could get someone in with half the ideas that Saracens are coming up with, I'd be happy.

Discounting the London Double Header Saracens averaged 6,342 fans prior to their record crowd at Wembley.

Afterwards they pulled in 6,346 punters.

A figure of 250,000 pounds was quoted to rent out Wembley.

So they spent 62,500 pounds per each new fan.

& they're not a failing business no siree.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=437277&tsmp=1343586411 Thank you.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=437277&tsmp=1343586411 Thank you.

So it is your contention that all 83,000 at wembley got in for free is it?

I know of at least 2 people who paid 30 quid each....the higher priced tickets were 50 notes....I doubt the "event" lost them money and if it did, not a lot, but I think it did help them secure an 8 milion pound international sponsor.
As for your attempt to hijack the salford thread....I never said we should use sarris tactics....I did say that the irony of a broncos fan trying to belitttle what sarries had achieved was not lost on me......pay attention and seriously, let's keep the sarries debate in one thread if you're that interested in it.....

It is my contention that none of those 80,000 eventers generated repeat custom.

Hell, that's not a contention it's a fact backed up by some of those stats you're so fond of quoting.

Cowgirl is closer to the truth that GF with regard to Sarries.

I know quite a few football fans who went to Sarries at Wembley as it was a geat day out, but none have gone to home games. Just like our big day out in 99!

Sarries for some unknown reason just haven't connected well with their local area and I hope for them they do well in Barnet, although they do play bloody boring rugby unlike Quins.

I have some news for you both....nobody has said that the wembley event attracted "new" repeat fans to sarries....what has been said is that the 83k made headlines, attracted media, generated interest and did what an "event" does.....got exposure that lasted a couple of days before and a day afterwards.......oh, it also boosted their seasons average from 7k to 20k.

For some reason, the renting of wembley to attract a crowd of 80k+ as well as generating media interest and raising the seasons averages is a bad thing in the opinion of some....

All I have said is that by comparrison, with double headers and literally thousands of free tickets the London SL club has achieved an average of about 3,200....and absolutely no national or local media interest. I say that that is a terribel state of affairs....

Do you think that any resident of Barnet will be unaware that Sarries have moved in come February? The residents of Twickenham don't know the London Broncos exist...because they've never been told......I suspect sarries will spend a lot of money "inviting" locals and local businesses to their new ground......I am sure "cowgirl" find fault in that too




I repeat, I am not saying that London Broncos should copy sarries....we couldn't even fill wembley for a CC Final...I just can't understand how anyone, especially a fan of a club that is as poorly run and supported as ours, can take the stance that Sarries have done something wrong.....

I wasn't passing moral judgement but I do think Saracens are a failing business.

& I've backed that up with evidence.

Are they failing as badly as Broncos?

It would be hard to argue that they are but on the other hand I could imagine the furore on here if Gus & Co spent 250 grand to rustle up 4 extra fans.