NB rest assured having reffed I understand the difficulties particularly on a back field with no TJ's, with players who listen to Stevo each week lambasting Refs!

I dont want the game to be sterilised

That said;

When I listen to the refs on their mikes its quite clear to me a number of them lack man management skills which is critical in any management position in any job (which is ultimately the role they are in). I get the sense they are above anything beyond question.
The VR is a shambles, as Ive said before if the ref asks to look at the grounding look at the grounding, not the the onside offside, not crossing not anything- I like the Bunker they have in Aus its very fast and transparent in that they talk through there decision as they are making it to the crowd.
Inconstancy of rule interpretation needs looking at as much as there are many human influences with players and refs it still needs review

As mentioned why not set up a working group with refs, players, coaches, club owners, fans.... and strip the officiating programme down and come up with some 'measurables' that can be measured. Ganson and co can then present against what the WG wanted and what they got. They cannot be beyond reproach thats for sure.

Wasn't meant as a criticism of Sammut' kicking, one of those kicks hit a post, that's how close he came. And its on those small margins games are won and lost sadly.
Another poster said Sykes would have got them, exactly what Mrs from Erith said at the game last night.
Although I was thoroughly entertained by last night's game I also worry that we're going to get stuck into an end of season Groundhog Day scenario- good enough to make the 8's but not quite good enough to get promoted. Because ultimately we all want to see London back in the top division don't we?

Totally agree with the bunker system,clinical no nonsense decision making. I have my decision I'm going to the board 10 seconds done and dusted.

The bunker in aus still look at onside offside at any kick before anything, the bunker in aus still make some calls that are debatable.
Sadly we are way behind the aus game when it comes to tv and vid refs, they televise every game and have vr at every game.
Like I have said before, the problem that has been made with the VR is the sky coverage, if the ref asks for foot in touch at a try, then it's seen he has missed a poor grounding refs get slated again!!!! So looking at everything sadly makes sense.
Reality is, and I know this from experience, some players don't know the rules, a lot of fans don't! Some on here are very knowledgable some shocking, so who do you get on the working group?

One day NB you will open your eyes and see what we all see the refs and officials are crap and this needs over hauling we have lost major games from poor decisions especially last night. Like you they appear not to give 50 /50 decisions if someone upsets them (your words a couple of days ago) When a team gets the wrong and poor decisions time after time it must be difficult not to question a ref. 90% OF FANS cannot be wrong about the so called professional refs the amateurs do a better job.

This... the turning point of the game 3 minutes before half time, where we were given a penalty and Sammut should have kicked the ball well over the touchline, but he didn't. You can see clearly the Wire player touching the ball from that Sammut kick and has his foot on the line with the touch judge less than 5 meters behind the incident. He must have seen that being so close. A converted try was scored from the subsequent set leaving us just 14-10 ahead at the break.

Cracking picture, only problem is you cannot see his hand or arm on the ball, go back 2 frames when his foot is off the floor when he makes first contact with the ball, it's a difficult call is his forearm still touching the ball when his foot lands?
run it at normal speed, then critisise, at the moment every London fan says he was on the floor, call it the other way every wire fan says he was still in the air.
touchy has to make a snap decision at full speed without slow motion.
Was it his error or was it sammuts error for not getting the ball out.
it was a 50/50 I agree, it went against us, does not make him a bad touchy.
for me and I am a London fan don't forget he was off his feet when he hit the ball, was his forearm still touching it when he landed , you can't tell from that picture or the tv shot.
that was not the deciding point of the game!

I do find it quite interesting that no one is arguing the Dixon try! To every wire fan, I put money on they are saying it was a double knock on! That one went our way and we are not knocking the VR for that one, it was the touchy that saw it by the way and suggested it should be checked. Few of the london players were watching it on the monitor by Angela powers, and thought it came of the forearm and then bounced fwd into sammuts hands, VR saw it as his chest. One is a knock on the other isn't, that one went our way.

NB - you are quite right. The Dixon try was one of the incomprehensible decisions made by those assisting the ref. Indeed, one of many. Child had a terrible night - the Hughes knock-on in the Hiku try was just as bad; and Atkins was inexplicably rescued by him twice, the latter call on 78 mins, killing the game in a rather sinister manner. It is difficult to imagine a more inept VR performance (though I am told we had one on Friday night).

As I said earlier, poor Liam Moore was badly let down. We fans were let down.

Anyone closer to the action have a view on the tackle in the last minute? I was stood on the opposite touchline so it wasn't clear but my impression was of a late tackle, possibly a cannonball? Thought it was a penalty.

It was a penalty and very clear on sky and the touch judge could not possibly have missed it unless he has a white stick.

The reason it was not given as a penalty! Ref had not called held, so legitimately he can join the tackle. Contact was midrift or top of thighs at worse, so no cannonball, he wasn't slowing the ptb down cos it was last, so there was no legitimate penalty. No dangerous contact, no effect on the next ptb, can't say it was late as tackle had not been called complete even though he was on one knee.
Interestingly the bench had it been a penalty gave the players the choice of go for draw or go for win.
TJ raiseed his flag didn't he? So he didn't miss it! Ref made the call of turn over I think with vr help

NB is the cannonball an offence against the rules, when executed before the ref shouts held?

Third man in hitting the legs you wouldn't think is against the rules more a morale thing. Don't the NRL make the third man in come in at waist height?

It wasn't a cannonball though, look where he came in it was at worst round his upper thigh dixon actually had one knee on the ground. Not defending it, it was a stupid thing to do, but there was nothing they could penalise him for, I wanted the penalty as much as anyone.
Any cannonball tackle is dangerous and should be a yellow! As for the NRL so what? We don't play NRL

So you've missed the question,

Is the cannonball an offence against the rules, when executed before the ref shouts held?

I'm not interested in the NRL, or Dixon or anything else (a bit like is it grounding or not, forget onside offside)

Thought I said, any cannonball tackle is classed as dangerous. And it was you that asked about NRL not me.
Wo it raises the question what is a cannonball tackle

So a second or third tackler coming into a player who is standing and puts unnecessary pressure against the normal direction of joint movement. So side on attack of the limb anywhere near or below the knee joint. Any head on attack to the knee or below forcing the joint against its normal direction of movement.
If a player comes in at the back of the knee it depends if it's done with force or not.
If someone is on one knee to be a cannonball it would have to be a targeted hit on the other leg

It wasn't a canonball tackle but it was a very, very, very late (and unnecessary) tackle. The tackle had been called, the ref blew his whistle as soon as Atkins made contact and the touchie was on the field. A minimum of a penalty for the lateness of the tackle as a prerequisite but the ref says "Lads, it's been reviewed, we're going handover". Who reviewed it as it wasn't a 50/50 call? James Child? Unbelievable.

The ref stated that he had not called held! Or blown his whistle, it's last tackle so the whistle is the signal that the tackle is complete. I heard the chat post match by the way.
So the question is, why is a late tackle or flop penalised? Two reasons? Could be due to dangerous or unnecessary contact or it slows down the restart ptb. There was no ptb restart to slow down as it was a handover, so what are you penalising??? You agree not a cannonball therefore not dangerous, so coming in late to prevent a quick ptb is the only reason he could have been penalised, it was last tackle, and handover so ptb was not prevented. 4 th tackle penalty everyday as he would have slowed the ptb
Rubbish rule but it's what it is.
And watch the playback the touchie and ref are talking hence the comment on review, I don't know if the VR chipped in.
The ref blew his whistle as Atkins made contact that signalled the ball dead until that whistle the ball is alive, and Atkins can come in to complete the tackle.

We're quibbling over the definition of 'cannonball ' - I was on that side of the pitch and that tackle was late, nasty and unnecessary!

My thoughts on the incident is that if one of our players had committed it, they would have been penalized. Without doubt.

Fellas I am a london fan through and through. I was 3 mtrs away, there was no penalty to give sorry chaps, held was not called, whistle had not been blown ball was still live. But hey it's done and gone.
Question though, just interested in thoughts, had we got a penalty! What should we have done, go for 2 and the draw and get the ball back, or go for broke and the win, it was interesting hearing what hendo said.

What did he say?

He actually gave the players the choice, they were asking should they go for the two or roll on and were told they could decide. So interesting that he must have had confidence

Warrington Wolves have signed up Ben Westwood for a further year. On Saturday I did not realise he was on the pitch until he scored a try.
It says a lot about the situation at Warrington. I doubt that their fans will be getting too excited at the news.