I'd say your argument has one major flaw, Dave: Powell was coaching McDermott's team this year. Next year when he has his own team, we'll see whether he can do a better job.

I meant it at this quote.

I still can't believe Mac has got a team to the Final but am seriously worried that if Leeds win (with him in charge)there will be a crack in the space -time continum!

am interested why King grounding the ball cms short of the line has anything to do with it! 1 cm short is not close enough! The knock on by Leeds that chalked off there try has not been mentioned! Why not pick up on the fact the 2 points were given away by warrington by being offside!
Interesting comment about the cas game and the Chump Chase! errrrr he ripped us apart the bloke is one of the best players in the league
So all Leeds games that they have won have been against an out of form teams!! yep warrington out of form!!! give the bloke his due he has got em too old trafford against all the odds and from 5th i think

at Quins he did not have the players to compete same as this year with Powell, maybe next year with a bit of money spoent and the ones coming in it may be different

Jesus christ.

And to think you wasted half your evening typing that post.

I've just read the rest of that post and come to the conclusion markrammond knows absolutely nothing about Rugby League.

Going on this principle, does that mean we all have to agree Tony Smith is a rubbish coach, because he failed to get the best squad in the league to either final ?

Leeds have a very good squad. Quite possibly the best after Warrington's, and the players have more playoffs and Grand Final winning experience than any other squad. They're a very good side. Richard Agar could probably coach them to a final. Rammond's post isn't inaccurate - they've underperformed this year in terms of wins/losses relative to the quality of their squad.

Put it this way, McDermott's team is at Old Trafford, and Tony Smith and Michael Maguire will be watching as spectators, but I know which two of those three I'd rather have coaching Saints if Royce Simmons fell under a bus.

Simple facts. People jumped on McDermotts back when he coached us. People wanted him out. Then they had a good laugh when Leeds lost a couple of games. And somehow he has got his team to the two biggest games of the season. Leeds fans are delighted. Our "fans" are left bringing up irrelevant facts in a desperate attempt to bring him down more and justify their ignorant comments. As someone said, credit where credit is due, McDermott has done a fantastic job with a squad that was written off half way through the season.

The best squad after Warrington? Trolololol.

1. You shouldn't misquote. I said "quite possibly" the best squad after Warrington's - it's arguable, but it's a fair argument. Leeds' threequarters are the best in the league after Wire's (possibly better than Wire's). Their forward pack is a match for any of the top teams. Only in the halves have they looked weaker than the other big teams this year. Which makes their win/loss record in the competition look particularly poor.

2. You're basing your assessment of McDermott's coaching ability on the fact that he got to Wembley and Old Trafford. In the last 5 years, Catalans, Hull and Huddersfield all got to the CC Final, but it didn't make them good teams, or their coaches particularly impressive. Saints got to the Grand Final last year under Mick Potter, who many Saints fans will tell you was our worst coach of the summer era, and who was duly asked to find another job - where he's hardly set the world on fire. He did that because he had the remnants of a very good team which knew how to win play-off games. Even some of his old players have now publicly criticised his coaching.

3. You're claiming that other people are bringing up irrelevant facts. Yet your whole post is basically an attempt to say that because Leeds have got to Wembley and Old Trafford this year, your view that the coach of Harlequins is pants must be accurate. If you think that's a reasonable argument, then it explains much about your judgement, I guess.

McDermott had years in London with far stronger squads than 2011's vintage, and achieved nothing. He's been at Leeds one year, and in terms of wins and losses, they've had their worst year for 5 years, despite having one of the best squads in the competition. Maybe Leeds will win the GF. Maybe they won't. But the idea that somehow he's a coaching guru whose absence is the cause of Quins' problems this year is at best doubtful, and at worst laughable.

Go back to the Saints forum or the Rob Powell Supporters Club forum then, we all know you have a soft spot for him for obvious reasons, your opinions unfortunately cannot be considered unbiased.

Oh and I look forward to you heading over to the Leeds forum to lambast all of those delighted with their coach.

I will have small wager with anyone that this time next year leeds will not be in the Grand final and it has little to do with their coach. Mac has done well at leeds and the hard work for Him will begin in February.

Listy why has it taken you this long to state something we've all known for years. He is a typical student who manipulates statistics to form an argument-All he is missing from his posts is a reference list at the end.

Maybe he should change his name to Harvard

Roy-This is a statement to provoke response, right. I know you use possibly and quite possibly as copouts but could you name Leeds 2 centres.

Exactly. They play Ablett there who is a second rower ffs

Compared to Wire who have 4 international centres to choose from added to 2 international halves (Accepted Briers played for Wales!) and a highly rated full back (previous MOS)

Leeds' back 5 in their semi win were : Webb, Jones-Bishop, Hardaker, Ablett and Hall. That's probably a better line-up that the Saints back 5, and I say that as a Saints fan. Webb is currently the form fullback after Tomkins. Jones-Bishop would start ahead of any winger at Saints, and probably ahead of Riley at Wire. Hall is the best winger in the competition at present, although you could argue Monaghan was better early in the season. Hardaker and Ablett are better than Joel Tomkins at Wigan, although I think Atkins and Bridge have been on better form than them, they were well-matched this weekend.

As for Ablett playing in the centres; in the first instance Wigan also play a second row in the centres - Joel Tomkins, and Saints also use Soliola interchangably, as they used to do with Gilmour and Huddersfield still do on occasion, so I don't see why Ablett being a second row in any way reduces the quality of the Leeds back line. I'd rather have him at centre than any of the centres from most of the teams in SL. In the second instance, it seems inconsistent to me to scoff at the folly of playing a second-row in the centres, while at the same time praising the coach who made that decision. If you think that second-rowers shouldn't ever be played at centre, then I would merely disagree, and point out that they have been for decades, under all sorts of coaches and at all sorts of clubs.

You also seem to miss my point about the halves. You do know that halves are not three-quarters ? Which is why I referred to the threequarters being comparable, but noted that Leeds' halfbacks were not comprable to Wire's. Wire's halfbacks have been far and away the most effective halfback combination this year, which is one of the reasons why they finished top.

So on this thread, so far, the guy who is accusing others of having no knowledge of rugby league is scoffing at a tactic which is not only commonly used at all levels of the game, but is also effective, and has been for decades, while his main supporter can't seem to tell the difference between halves and threequarters ?

I think before throwing around accusations of people not understanding the game, you both might want to check what you write first.

Happy to help.

Webb is past it, most Leeds fans want rid of him, and I agree with them. Jones-Bishop is an excellent player. Hardaker has only played a handful of games in Super League. Ablett is a second rower who has been playing excellently at centre, a very shrewd move by McDermott, that is for sure. Where was I "scoffing" at any tactic?

You are getting paranoid and making things up now. You can write as long a post as you like, Ablett is a second rower and only playing in the centres because Watkins isn't fit.

Leeds half backs might not be up the standards of Warrington's, funny how they completely outplayed them though on Friday night? Another piece of McDermott's game plan that he got absolutely spot on, when it mattered.

Still laughing at McDermott being labelled a "lucky manager", pmsl. Is Royce Simmons a lucky manager too?

Arhh got it Roy lets play on words if we cant use possibly as a copout. To your credit and in my defence I did read three quarters as backs but your knew that anyway didnt you. That said it did strengthen a very weak comeback.

Its interesting that all of your comparisons use the weakness from one or another of the top clubs-I suspect this does strengthen your argument if the reader knows little about the game

Fair play to McDermott, he's got his team to two finals.

However I remember sitting next to a certain Dave Lister at Wembley this year, and he wasn't very happy with how they played for the vast majority of that game. Leeds were dreadful in the first half and paid the price for it, against a Wigan team who played well below par and other teams in the top six would have beaten.

The 'fact' remains we did the double over Leeds this season, and we all know these things can happen but the limitations of that Leeds team were laid bare for all to see. There's no luck involved in their excellent play-off run, that is just a team hitting its stride at just the right time and they deserve credit for that. But it is fanciful to suggest that we had 'good times' under McDermott. We didn't, and as poor as some of the peformances under Powell were this season, I still feel slightly more optimistic now than I did 2 years or even 12 months ago, after wearying campaigns watching dismal rugby produced under McDermott, hamstrung as he was by external factors.

I don't think he's an especially imaginative coach, and I don't think he's very good with people. But if he wins a grand final, fair play to him, he's proved a few people wrong but it doesn't change his record at Quins - which was, in most people's eyes, a poor one especially in his last two years.

his drivel post match comments and his general could not give a f**k attitude did more damage to supporters of this club than most other things over the previous 2 seasons to this one gone.

Is Powell a better coach? probably not, but am I happy burger king left? over the moon harry.

"Could not give a f**k attitude" ? Interesting. And they say cultures in business often come from the top down... I don't agree with your assertion, but I wouldn't blame him for not caring when the club is run in such a shabby fashion. He will have been desperate to get out and put his skills to good use, and Leeds provided that platform for him. He has turned a team around this season - the performance against Warrington was the best I have seen for years - perhaps it is the climax of their excellent run at the end of the season, but regardless, it has been mastery from McDermott.

You think post match comments and a bad attitude have irritated fans more than ritual humpings by below average sides, usually by a hefty score? Come off it.

When I watch Leeds I see they like to throw the ball around. I never remember Quins playing like this under Mac. Didnt Quins fans complain it was too boring under his coaching spell?