So you want TK to cover Broncos debts instead of DH.

Everyone I think has the message by now that it aint going to happen, but that does not mean that Broncos have no future at the Hive and can't stay at the top table or if not then be competitive enough to fight it out in the middle group of eight next year.

The point I was making is that the Broncos stay at the Hive and the Hives profitability with Broncos are interrelated. If the Broncos or BFC or London Bees are successful the the Hive will be more profitable and more capable of expanding to accommodate them. If they are not then it will stay as it is now. Put another way, if Broncos need a larger stadium in the future then the money that went into the Hives balance sheet will help pay for it.

You have chosen to separate Broncos from the Hive but i'm afraid that with the new setup I don't believe you can if you are looking for a future that contains London Broncos. The Hive have taken over the running of the club in all respects other than the players on the pitch, if they make a mess of it then it's bleak, if they succeed then there is hope.
They are already integrating RL into the Community Trust work and looking to make Broncos stay long term and sustainable. Whether they will succeed I don't know but I'll give them the benefit of having a go.

This asks another question for fans if Broncos are able to have a team that costs the maximum allowed then what difference does it make to a fan how that is paid for? Truth is their money has been reducing the losses covered by someone else. It will be interesting to see what the Bronco accounts look like in a years time and compare to their last year at the Stoop to see how the new finances spin out.

rose tinted, there was no skolars game!! it was a training session not a game.
proves you cant believe all you read on the forum which is why the club should issue reliable information

Have the forum on a game day! so TR tood in front of us and answered questions, what would you prefer, he is stood in front of us the fans or focusing on the game?
Why not other coaches have and they have been valable sessions with a large cross section of fans

What are the conference facilities being used for prior to the game on 22nd? Their is already summat going on that is for the benefit of London Rugby League in general by the way.
So why not hold it in one of the bars

Trust me the forum was not just for those "select few" as you put, in fact the air was sucked from the room when paddock appeared!!
GREAT he probably added real value with his common sense approach

The club, that means DH/TK/Gus/TR acknowledged that communication was key, but what do you want them to do come knocking at your door! the forum.
I will ignore your condescending attitude to answer in a mature manner. No I dont want them knocking on my door but I would expect to see mail shots. The club managed to float our names,addresses and in some cases phone numbers on the internet so why not take th eopportunity to send mail shots of what is happening at the club and make an apology to fans for doing wrong.

Also the only way to get new fans is to advertise and appealing to internet users is not good enough. We need mailshots and adverts. There is not even information to old fans regarding buying tickets the first home game is two weeks away and I have seen and heard nothing about it.

Nope. I want London Boncos to not make losses in the first place. To do that, they need to increase their revenue streams.......2014 is the year we have given up ticketing revenue and handed the most important aspect of off-field activity to a guy with an average of 1,500 for soccer. Put another way, the people making decisions at the club do not have a ing clue how to build revenue streams do they are going to give the responsibility to a guy who has a very limited track record in this area. GENIUS


AK is a salesman. Standing up at a forum is bread and butter to him and to applaud him for it is insanity. As for the future. Stay up in 2014 and then what? The losses in 2014 may be reduced to 1.2 from 2.4 million, but without Hughes, the club immediately becomes a 7 figure liablity. Go down and believe me, a crowd of 1,000 will be a "bumper" turn out.....and you assume that a top 4 finish in the 2nd tier would be bolted on?


London Broncos have had business plans dependant on a successful team in the past. If that is the case in 2014 well then it is not long now until it truly is GAME OVER!


London outside of SL and without Hughes will not be able to afford Underhill, will not attract RFL marketing funding and if they get sub 1k crowds they will cost AK money to just open the gates....



You talk about the future like the club has one? London Broncos have a core of between 400 and 600 fans......you may get a spike for some of the bigger visitors, but unless someone somewhere has a strategic plan that includes strategies for the exit from SL and 5 years + in the lower tier on little income, building from the bottom up, then there really is little use for the word "future" when discussing London Broncos as a viable professional entity.


With all projects, there need to be rewards and consequences. We know what the rewards are for The Hive and its owner, but what are the consequences of failure? Not for London Broncos, but for The Hive?


Buddy, there are kids and community work results all over the West and South West of London....if that's the strategy that is paying such massive dividends for Barnet FC then we are truly ed!



Indeed, the finances will be interesting.........because 1.85 million in SKY money will not bankroll the first team and their associated costs EXCLUDING coaches. That cost in 2012 was 2.7 Million quid........that's everything from wages, through travel, treatments, away accommodation and all the other stuff that running a pro RL team involves.
4 Million a year is the minimum turn over for a SL club to be competitive.......doing it on a budget is what London, Wakefield, Castleford and Bradford are doing in 2014 and 2 of those 4 will be gone by September.....that's the fact of life in regards to the top tier of RL in the UK......IT IS NOT PART TIME SOCCER!

A crap deal or folding completely, I know what I'd choose.

There is that but there comes a point, particularly when the lunatics are still in charge of the asylum.

........not putting ourselves in that position in the first place?

So the cost for the stoop was either 18.5k or or 15.8 per game?
Your comment on smoke screen and the cost of coffee, I do believe you asked for specifics, I gave you a specific, from a fans point of view its better than the rip off at the stoop, and the bar staff smile at you at least unlike the grumpy lot at the stoop.
As for use of the facilities at the stoop, mate I spent long enough last season and the season before in the tunnel on match day, their were facilities that were NOT made available to the broncos that is a fact.
You are happy to quote all other figures, marketing funding by the RFL is not solely London all clubs benefit, what was suggested at the forum is that the RFL should think about marketing the GAME more in the south considering our catchment area. It was a follow on to all the talk the RFL gave to success of the RLWC.
The club spent at least 40k last year on market btw
no-one has said we are better off than in 2011, everyone at the forum probably agreed we have gone backwards massively.
DH is still the bloke who owns us and is the money man so basically its down to him to appoint the CEO
Player sponsorship, actually they have put a price on it!
Willing and hungry diners!!!! don't know what you mean! questions were asked, and they gave answers honestly, there was no flannel, there was no bull.

Melf, I don't think anyone is actually saying TK should take over now, but as you say in a year or two or three years time who knows what is going to happen.
TK stood up and fended questions and seemed pretty genuine, again no flannel no bull yep he said their had been hickups and their were still things that needed work but importantly he was willing to listen to what the club and the supporters want and need to make it a success

a crap deal or folding or not getting ourselves in the position in the first place, the clock cannot be turned back, so you are left with the first two options, gutters we are where we are!! the clock cannot be turned back

I agree a bad deal is better than none at all. But an analysis of how we got into this mess is apposite too. We are still a basket case with the thinnest squad in SL. Still I will try to enjoy the coming season. Long may the debate conynue.

COYB 2014 Gigot and the Broncos got a ring to in.

Unless you're Michael J. Fox or L'Oreal. (Sorry, really starting to get into this Babylon Police Comedy drama on Channel 4).

True. I agree. We can only hope to learn from our mistakes, that is all we have. Let's defy the odds and get the lads thinking they CAN. Lets do this Broncos!

The cost of the stoop is irrelevant. Matchday costs, which include the cost of the stadium in 2012 were £222,244....that year we made losses of £2,202,049! 10% of out losses were down to the cost of the stoop.......will this simple equation not sink in Michael?



Gus would love it is the only matter of conversation was the cost of a coffee and the smile it came with......and I suggest the smile was pleasant because there was only 50 of you there. Let's see what it's like when 1,000 people hit the bar looking for a beer in 10 minutes over half time.


As I said, until we started getting y, we had access to everything we wanted. The relationship broke down when IL was replaced with DH and then once we started making sounds about leaving, we no longer became anything other than an annoyance. We were not asked to move out of the offices at the stoop...we chose to!

so? We are a business. Businesses provide a product or service and they try to get people to buy it. Over the last 18 years we have failed.....over tha last 3 we have failed with bells on and fist class honours! It is not for the club to wait for the RFL to dosomething. David Hughes has wasted 10,000,000+ on a club that he will never get back. His failings and those of his puppet CEO's can't be laid at Knock down Nigels feet..,....that is an entirely different thread!

..WoW......massive drop from 2012 then. £205,944 in 2012, £242,524 the year before and £267,943 in 2010

Michael, I don't pull these figures out of a hat. If your £40k in 2013 is true then the club should be stripped of its licence.



YET THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE IS STILL ON A WAGE........and you expect something to change








for 1 more year....then the RFL don't have to worry about us any more because we will slip into the lower tier. As for the money for 2014....the RFL have given our new landlord a marketing budget. If I wasn't such a devoted fan of the RFL, I could maybe look upon that as the RFL PAYING HIM TO TAKE US FOR ONE MORE YEAR TO SEE OUT THE LICENCING PERIOD......but hey, that would be pure speculation




They didn't when they first announced it......but good to see they have now decided on a figure. I wonder if they will update us as to the availability of players as they begin to attract throngs of sponsors.....





We admit we have made mistakes and we accept we need to improve........where else did they say they had got it wrong?
We know we need to communicate with fans more effectively.......no Sherlock?

Honesty? Honesty is for kids caught stealing.....REALISM is what is needed in business. The Current CEO has overseen losses in excess of over £6,500,000 on a turn over of £12,300,000 in 3 years.

LET ME TYPE THAT AGAIN FOR YOU

[size=200losses in excess of over £6,500,000 on a turn over of £12,300,000 in 3 years.[/size




London Broncos will not be in SL and will be struggling unless the funding of the expansion team is given a major overhaul. TK will not be investing anything he doesn't get back over the bar or on the gate.


'"

you know gutters typing in bigger font makes no difference,
and why do you have to resort to swearing? all know what you mean when you say "loving" and their is no real need for it.
Yes we all agree we are doomed doomed, those of us that turn up this year are gonna be watching poop, and we are all playing in to the hands of Gus, mate I am not asking you to start singing his praises.
We get it you are peed off with everything that the club stands for and everyone involved.
But if its the last season watching em coz we are down the pan as you insist, then sod it I will try and enjoy any bit of it that I can.
Just do some of us a favour and keep your gloating in check a bit until its happened, its ok you will only have to wait till Sunday aft before you can give it "i told you so"
personally its about the 17 blokes who are gonna go out on the park.
I will say tho I find it quite interesting that you have so much to say about a meeting that you were not even at!

as for TK being a business man and us being his tenants, what is your point?

My figure out of a hat! you are happy enough to spew figures etc we are all supposed to listen to yours but you will not listen to someone else's!?
So whinge whinge we did not get a forum when we wanted on, now we have got one, its whinge whinge whinge, we asked questions they answered and that's not good enough.
As for the RFL quip no I was not suggesting its Dave woods fault, but even Blake Solly agreed the FL could do more to promote the game as a whole in the south.

I was far far away Michael, although apparently, it was mentioned that a "Live" link to NZ might be in order for the next one, which I am led to believe cause much mirth. Even the crap African fielder accepts that I do what I do because I want the club to succeed, not because I want it to fail and it speaks volumes that one of the only smiles they can raise is at my expense.

Michael, it really isn't about 17 guys on the park. If it were, the the Skolars and the other clubs would have picked up more than the handful of fans off the Broncos over the years.
It is actually quite "tribal" in its nature, in that this is "our" team and we will shout for them and support them through thick and thin and "woe be" the supporter from outside who dares slag us off. God knows I have defended us over the years from idiots who can't see past their own front gate, but I refuse to sit by quietly whilst the heart that has been ripped from "our" club is now stomped on by uncaring fools who I wouldn't trust to tie their own shoe laces.

Fact remains that the same owner and the same CEO, together with the same coach from a record breaking bad year in 2013 are still at the helm in 2014.....the only real difference is that this years team are weaker than last years. and the coffee is a bit cheaper.

Roll on Widnes when the fun can start in earnest.

What kind of an input are DH,Gus and rea going to have now that the club has been turned over to kleanthous Long and grimma

We rolled out our previous landlord at the start of the last tenancy.........remind me again how that turned out?


My figures are in the form of a powerpoint presentation on Broncos headed stationary that was supplied to me by the RFL....feel free to tell me who told you we spent 40k (3k a game) marketing the only professional RL club in London in 2013 and I'll be happy to accept it as fact. If it is fact, I repeat, London should have been stripped of their licence immediately!The Marketing wages in 2012 were more than double your "claimed" entire spend in 2013......and in 2012 we sacked the 2 staff half way through the year!


Michael. I suggest you step back from the club, take off your replica shirt and rose tinted specs and look at the entire forum, it's content, what was said and what wasn't. Then ask yourself, what did you walk out of there knowing about the back office goings on of the business that you didn't already know.



Blake Solly agreed? Bloody hell......well what a relief


If there was a prize for swallowing the largest amount of platitudes soaked up in a lovely sauce made of spin, I suspect certain fans on here would wear their rosettes with pride.

To recap...the forum revealed:

The club have made errors but it's going to be OK now
The Club know they need to communicate better with their fans....insightful.
The Landlord is in receipt of money from the RFL to market us....he's a wizard at it. Look at Barnet FC gates!
The Team is short of some key players and experience but TR is hopeful of filling these...aren't we all Tony?
The Team will segment the season into key sections...so as not to get on too long a losing streak


The Away strip (white/offwhite hoops) and other stuff will be available no later than 2nd home game...early as ever.
300k schoolkids will be targeted to promote RL. These are the same kids that have already had soccer promoted to them
Jamie O'C is back training with the Broncos......Jesus Wept.....JOC



.....yep, I feel better already about the Broncos in 2014. How in Gods name did I get so negative

Actually gutters that's all it boils down too! the 17 blokes who pull the shirt on and throw the ball about, ok half the time they drop the ruddy thing but hey ho.
I agree with you that the club has gone backwards, and yes I agree that if we stay in the top 12 it will be a hell of a shock, but the truth of the matter is, without DH/TK we would not even be here! So until, you, paddock, me, or someone else can find the next money man, then I will say it again, it is what it is and there is not a lot WE can do. Fine rant on here quote numbers on here, come up with stats on here, at the minute we don't have a doc K coming in with a fat wallet.
I for one though will get behind the blokes on the park when they play and support em. Because as I say its about that 80 minutes each week and the 17 blokes in the hooped shirts with the donkey on the chest.

what?
DH own the club, Gus is his CEO and TR is the Head Coach........
Kleanthous is the Landlord,
Sean Long and Grimma are assistant coaches.....

DH will make up any financial shortfall in 2014 (to a certain level below that of previous years)
Gus will negotiate









with sponsors










Rea will coach the team and oversee selection.

....unless you've been told otherwise?

Good for you Michael, good for you. Rest assured, you can cheer on your hooped shirted heroes and sip your £1.80 cappuccino safe in the knowledge that there really is nothing that you could have done to save the Broncos, should it all turn to custard at the end of the year.
COYB....

The club have made errors but it's going to be OK now

NO THEY NEVER SAID IT WAS OK NOW.

The Club know they need to communicate better with their fans....insightful.

SO WHAT RESPONSE WERE THEY MEANT TO COME UP WITH, THEY AKNOWLEDGED THE ISSUE

The Landlord is in receipt of money from the RFL to market us....he's a wizard at it. Look at Barnet FC gates!

WELL AS YOU HAVE SO ELOQUENTLY PUT IT IN THE PAST ON MANY OCCASION WE HAVE BEEN POOP AT IT, WHATS WRONG WITH LETTING THEM DO IT, AS YOU SAY YOURSELF IT CANNOT BE WORSE

The Team is short of some key players and experience but TR is hopeful of filling these...aren't we all Tony?

HE ANSWERED THE QUESTION HONESTLY! WHAT MORE DO YOU EXPECT

The Team will segment the season into key sections...so as not to get on too long a losing streak



NO THE QUESTION ASKED WAS "WHAT IS THE TARGET FOR THE SEASON" AGAIN TR ANSWERED HONESTLY HE SAID THE TARGET AT THE PRECISE MOMENT IS TO GET THE BLOKES WORKING TOGETHER ON THE PITCH, HE THEN WENT ON TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE MEANT BY THAT. NO MENTION WAS MADE OF KEY SEGMENTS OF THE SEASON

The Away strip (white/offwhite hoops) and other stuff will be available no later than 2nd home game...early as ever.

SO WHAT?

300k schoolkids will be targeted to promote RL. These are the same kids that have already had soccer promoted to them

SO LETS IGNORE THE KIDS! ITS BEEN SAID BEFORE GET THE KIDS INTERESTED THEN YOU MIGHT GET THE PARENTS INTERESTED, IT WAS IN ANSWER TO A QUESTION REGARDING YOUTH RUGBY IN THE LONDON REGION. I WOULD LIKE YOU TO FIND MANY KIDS IN THE COUNTRY NEVER MIND LONDON THAT HAVE NOT HAD FOOTBALL PROMOTED TO EM

Jamie O'C is back training with the Broncos......Jesus Wept.....JOC



NO JAMIE Oc TRAINED WITH EM ON SAT, AND IF SOMEONE HAMMERED NAILS THROUGH YR HANDS AND FEET YOU WOULD WEEP

Does it not seem to you that Kleanthous and staff,are a bit more than just Landlords?
DH is financing the playing side of things,Gus will do what DH pays him to do?.
It appears obvious that Rea has brought the players in and will be the mouth piece for the club,but i'd guess that Grimma & long will be main coaches

And its dopio espresso I will have you know, one has to keep an eye on the figure

Actually, no. We pay Rent (for an amount of space, access to pitches and the big pitch for main games). He gets the bar and everything else......not that much different to the stoop actually. I am happy to be corrected once they all have @londonbroncosrl.com email addresses though




And that combination has really delivered thus far...I really can't wait to see what 2014 delivers. 53% losses on a 3 year turn over of 12.3 million will take some beating but if ever there were 2 guys you'd back to do it, then they're the guys!



Not sure what salary TR can command, but I'd guess if he is not head coach, he'd be the best paid press officer in SL



On the last 2 points you've just made......Gus will do DH's bidding and TR will be the comical Ali of the group? I think I can spot 2 more salaries we could have made savings on there.....I see no point in either Rea or MacKay if, as you allude in your first point, Kleanthous and Gang are pulling the back office strings and as you guess in your second that Long and Grimma are the coaches.

Wonder why they've still got jobs if they're surplus to requirements? I mean, we are looking to save as much cash as possible......that's what all the staff who were let go before Christmas were told

You should all stay away. TK is ripping the club off and the current management are running you into the ground.

Don't buy membership, tickets or merchandise as you will only be lining TKs pocket. It wont make any difference to broncos future whether you come or not.

This is Broncos last year and you should say your goodbyes now. We all need to slag off those in charge as much as we can from now until the end of the season so they know the fans are no longer interested in supporting a London Rugby League club and therefore ensure they withdraw their support.

Have I missed anything GF?

Post where I have said that?

I actually said "more power to him!

You disagree with that diagnosis?

Post where I have said that?

Incorrect.....and Post where I have said that?

Post where I have said that?

Again. Post where I have said that?

Post where I have said that?


Patently, quite a lot.

All that you have posted is a twisted version of what you think I have said, whilst in reality, I have not said stay away, don't buy memberships, don't buy merchandise, 2014 will be the last of the London Broncos, that AK is robbing anyone blind or in fact, given any advice on attending matches, supporting the club or buying beers, teas, coffees, pies or replica shirts to anyone.

The only semblance of accuracy in your post, designed to appeal to the "masses" is that the current management are incapable of running the club properly which is a belief I stand by and so, it would seem do most on here, even if they tire of my mundane repetitiveness.

This thread was about the forum. An event attended by 50 or so of the 400-600 London broncos supporters left. It was an event where because they admitted they've made mistakes and can do better, some on here see as a good thing.....I still say whilst we have the same bankroller and puppet CEO then little if anything will change off the park whilst the squad we currently have has improved from 0 comp points to maybe 6 comp points in 2014, but will still be assured to be in the championship next season unless other clubs go bust.