Or how about London Luddites as a rebrand for those insistent on living in the past.

I don't think anybody is living in the past, just no confidence in the LB management and their track record. I suspect behind all the rosy glow of the hive is to prepare for the championship and try and build again in the future.

I see what you're saying, it's just by getting behind the team and wishing the best with what we have will only benefit us. Take a look at Crystal Palace FC in footy. Nailed on for relegation at the beggining of the season, now with new management and an admirable positive fanbase support, they could be making the great escape.

Our constant negativity will automatically rub off on the players, who may not even try new techniques due to being hounded by the crowd. I want to see some invention and creativity from Moore, Bishay and the rest and the positive outlook and environment will help them.

So lets drop what's happened beforre and utilise the intimate surroundings of the lush Hive and make the most of this season! We can do it! Constant baraging and negativity will soon turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Lets do this Broncos!

I don't think the crowd is the problem, wasn't last year and the season was poor. I would expect any london team to give 100% and would expect this effort from the youth without question. The problem is sitting at the top table and takes with it a lot of baggage especially the way staff at LB was treated and a lot of the youth were around then and will have had first hand experience of the crap which occurred last season.

I have seen the EXACT figures for the Stoop and regardless of what you have been "spoon fed", it wasn't 25k a game.


This rant has more to do with pricing than anything else......they sold it, we bought it. I see that the arrangements at the hive are close to identical, but according to you, are some how "better for the club"......they sell it, fans buy it, we get nothing from it.


It was Harlequins RL decision to move out of the stoop administration offices and to begin training at the park......


Incorrect. We pay an overall rental agreement which includes use of the stadium and the office space at underhill as well as the pitch there. Like the Stoop, we have access to their gym WHEN WE'VE BOOKED TIME IN IT. Big bad nasty Union club askes tenants to book time needed in gym/treatment rooms.......

and the food and everything else that the stoop took.......
...pricing for the fans


pricing for the fans again...and I notice you've gone from actually naming a price to "reasonable"


He is already making money. He's being paid for offices he wasn't using, he is being paid for a pitch and facilities that will generate cash for his bars and food and he is being PAID BY THE RFL to market us.


I could TAKE OVER and run the club better......what we need is an investor with a plan. This guy has admitted to already dropping the ball....he could do more he has said!


You are GUS and I want my fiver. That is utter spin and if you can't see that you need your journalistic licence revoked




CHARITY? That's your solution is it?




Nobody has suggested anyone shouldn't support the club.....which is what you are alluding to here. I'll buy the shirts if and when they are available and if they ship overseas.....but 1,000 replica shirts ain't gonna solve out woes.


actually, I want the club to do well, with or without GUS......

.....and you are acting like a lemming mate. I support the club but I WONT SWALLOW THAT BOLLOX YOU'RE PEDDLING.......doesn't make me less of a supporter than you, just means I have a modicum of common sense about me.

Hmm. Hard to tell re:crowd factor. Saracens players have said how much of a positive difference it is playing at a near 3/4 full 10,000 Stadium@Barnet Copthall Allianz Park, than a quarter full 20,000 stadium at Vicarge Road, Watford FC. They have mentioned how much of a motivator it is to see and hear the crowd in the intimate smaller Stadium.

Perhaps this factor could work for us. Of course, any Professional Sports team you expect 100% effort. However, with a young team who can get overawed by the names on opposing team sheets, perhaps the added mental support of seeing a crowd backing them with support, could bring the best out of their potential.

But yeh, I totally agree about the loss of immense youth coaches and the baggage that has happened. Almost a catch 22. Cut our nose and spite our face, or get behind the team and avoid relegation and rebuild.

Mark you should have asked why the forum was held the same day as the skolars game and why it was not before the opening game so many more fans including myself who live far to far away to come down to this forum could attend. If the club feel they want to succeed and realise they have been wrong and they want to put it right they need to get the basics right. This is not a hate Gus or anything else posting it is a matter of fact. To catch the larger audience you sell yuorself, you dont have a fans forum of which only internet users are aware of and you dont alienate any fans by putting on forums when the vast majority cant attend. Its obvious when you hold them for the select few who can attend they will get a great feed back as it will mainly be fans like yourself who attend.

The problem is gutters you are not here and you are not running the club and are never likely to.
You have seen the EXACT figure for the stoop, so what is it?
Bar prices, yep I will give you a reasonable price, decent coffee double espresso £1.80 2 and half at the stoop so yep I see that as reasonable prices
FACT quins rl/broncos were not granted use of all the facilities at the stoop on match days.
how much is he being paid by the rfl to market us?
We have always had player sponsorship, most clubs do it? whats wrong with it?
You call someone a lemming and say they are swallowing bollox that's not what it is at all! its called being an optimist! if we all took your view good god it would be depressing.
WE GET IT! its not gonna be easy, yes we know staying up will shock all the pundits, we know the hive is not the perfect solution, but without it staying up would not be an issue as we would not be here

rose tinted, there was no skolars game!! it was a training session not a game.
Have the forum on a game day! so TR tood in front of us and answered questions, what would you prefer, he is stood in front of us the fans or focusing on the game?
What are the conference facilities being used for prior to the game on 22nd? Their is already summat going on that is for the benefit of London Rugby League in general by the way.
Trust me the forum was not just for those "select few" as you put, in fact the air was sucked from the room when paddock appeared!!
The club, that means DH/TK/Gus/TR acknowledged that communication was key, but what do you want them to do come knocking at your door! the forum.
You knew about the forum, why did you not ask the questions by email as suggested

This is not correct. the rent of Underhill is not related to the use of the Hive for first team games. Underhill has it's own gym and treatment rooms that are sole use of the Broncos so they do not have to book facilities in the same way that Barnet Fc and London Bees have to. They have been given an allocation of time on the 4G pitches in the run up to their first game.

I know you want to bash TK for receiving money to cover his costs and potentially to make a profit from it. Any profit made will be put back into the Hive and isn't going into anyone's pocket as you seem to be suggesting. Underhill was still making money through events and party bookings at the Durham suite and by renting out the pitch, both of these revenues have been lost by Broncos taking over the site so it seems fair to me that the loss of revenue is covered, especially as it is Hive groundstaff who maintain the facilities for the Broncos to use.

Never say Never Michael. Given the incumbent, I suggest an untrained chimp could do it, so that doesn't count me out



Matchday costs for the club in 2012 were £222,244. We played 13 home SL games and a CC cup game......12 of these 14 were at the Stoop, so even if you believe that Orient and Gillingham were freebies

that would be £300k, Rammond is spinning for Gus.


This is againa smokescreen. The current CEO has cost the club HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS in lost ticketing revenue alone. The price of beer/coffee/sandwiches etc is not directly connected to attendances. The fact that you and Spinmaster Mark Mark want to concentrate on the cost of coffee speaks volumes



Actually, that is not a fact...it is a myth. Quins RU became less amicable towards the end of our stay there, but whilst we officed there, we had access to everything. I am no fan of the Union Club. I seem to remember volunteers clearing up after a Union game so the RL club could have an open/Christmas day......but they didn't remove or block access to anything until WE started getting y and talked about leaving.

Who cares....it's another income he's getting. It was admitted at the Forum...he is taking NO RISKS.

Nothing....but in the context of Marky Marks post, it was mentioned like a major cog in the wheel of Broncos recovery. The club haven't even put a price on it......you have to contact them for more details.....like an infomercial



I say it is. Look at the team we have.....look at the ground we are playing in and look at the clubs general demeanour and tell me that we are better off than we were on Jan 13th 2011!


And Michael, the question that many on here would not rather answer is,

WHAT GOT US INTO THE SITUATION WHERE WE HAD TO BEG FOR A GROUND, GIVE ALL OUR INCOME AWAY AND GET THE RFL TO PAY THE LANDLORD TO TAKE US?

If the skipper of the titanic had survived, how quickly do you reckon the blue star line would have been to give him the helm of another ship?

I call bull when I see it Michael and the forum was spoon fed bull delivered to a willing audience of willing and hungry diners. 50 there, less at the last forum and if you're generous, that's 75 people who may have bought 2 memberships each.....Season Ticket revenue at the club in 2010 before Gus was £213,000. Matchday ticket revenue was another £350,000.......commercial another £275,000. All that is now gone.....as are the coaches and development teams and any semblance we had of being a "club".
AK cares not a jot for RL........he is on a guaranteed income with a chance of more this year...he wont invest a brass farthing after getting it for nothing.

WE PAY RENT. Regardless of what we get for it, WE PAY RENT. We were paying rent at the stoop and Roehampton and we were doing our own administration....which AK is now being paid to do.

Nope....I don't want to bash him at all. What I will do is point out that he's not the messiah that some on here think he is. He is renting us space and he is also being paid to market us...he is not investing a brass farthing in London Broncos RL. I am not bashing him. He's a business man and he is on to a winner here......all of the Revenue for none of the Risk.....it's a truly sweet deal for him. Good luck to the bloke!


WTF? I said he wasn't investing in London Boncos. BTW, who owns the Hive? If he's reinvesting it in The Hive and he owns the Hive....what exactly would you call that? I never said he was pocketing it, but is someone gave me cash and I put new windows in my house, I'd say that was most assuredly me benefitting.








Underhill being rented out now an again replaced by a full time tenant......Oh, the hardship. I can feel the belt tightening from here.

So you want TK to cover Broncos debts instead of DH.

Everyone I think has the message by now that it aint going to happen, but that does not mean that Broncos have no future at the Hive and can't stay at the top table or if not then be competitive enough to fight it out in the middle group of eight next year.

The point I was making is that the Broncos stay at the Hive and the Hives profitability with Broncos are interrelated. If the Broncos or BFC or London Bees are successful the the Hive will be more profitable and more capable of expanding to accommodate them. If they are not then it will stay as it is now. Put another way, if Broncos need a larger stadium in the future then the money that went into the Hives balance sheet will help pay for it.

You have chosen to separate Broncos from the Hive but i'm afraid that with the new setup I don't believe you can if you are looking for a future that contains London Broncos. The Hive have taken over the running of the club in all respects other than the players on the pitch, if they make a mess of it then it's bleak, if they succeed then there is hope.
They are already integrating RL into the Community Trust work and looking to make Broncos stay long term and sustainable. Whether they will succeed I don't know but I'll give them the benefit of having a go.

This asks another question for fans if Broncos are able to have a team that costs the maximum allowed then what difference does it make to a fan how that is paid for? Truth is their money has been reducing the losses covered by someone else. It will be interesting to see what the Bronco accounts look like in a years time and compare to their last year at the Stoop to see how the new finances spin out.

rose tinted, there was no skolars game!! it was a training session not a game.
proves you cant believe all you read on the forum which is why the club should issue reliable information

Have the forum on a game day! so TR tood in front of us and answered questions, what would you prefer, he is stood in front of us the fans or focusing on the game?
Why not other coaches have and they have been valable sessions with a large cross section of fans

What are the conference facilities being used for prior to the game on 22nd? Their is already summat going on that is for the benefit of London Rugby League in general by the way.
So why not hold it in one of the bars

Trust me the forum was not just for those "select few" as you put, in fact the air was sucked from the room when paddock appeared!!
GREAT he probably added real value with his common sense approach

The club, that means DH/TK/Gus/TR acknowledged that communication was key, but what do you want them to do come knocking at your door! the forum.
I will ignore your condescending attitude to answer in a mature manner. No I dont want them knocking on my door but I would expect to see mail shots. The club managed to float our names,addresses and in some cases phone numbers on the internet so why not take th eopportunity to send mail shots of what is happening at the club and make an apology to fans for doing wrong.

Also the only way to get new fans is to advertise and appealing to internet users is not good enough. We need mailshots and adverts. There is not even information to old fans regarding buying tickets the first home game is two weeks away and I have seen and heard nothing about it.

Nope. I want London Boncos to not make losses in the first place. To do that, they need to increase their revenue streams.......2014 is the year we have given up ticketing revenue and handed the most important aspect of off-field activity to a guy with an average of 1,500 for soccer. Put another way, the people making decisions at the club do not have a ing clue how to build revenue streams do they are going to give the responsibility to a guy who has a very limited track record in this area. GENIUS


AK is a salesman. Standing up at a forum is bread and butter to him and to applaud him for it is insanity. As for the future. Stay up in 2014 and then what? The losses in 2014 may be reduced to 1.2 from 2.4 million, but without Hughes, the club immediately becomes a 7 figure liablity. Go down and believe me, a crowd of 1,000 will be a "bumper" turn out.....and you assume that a top 4 finish in the 2nd tier would be bolted on?


London Broncos have had business plans dependant on a successful team in the past. If that is the case in 2014 well then it is not long now until it truly is GAME OVER!


London outside of SL and without Hughes will not be able to afford Underhill, will not attract RFL marketing funding and if they get sub 1k crowds they will cost AK money to just open the gates....



You talk about the future like the club has one? London Broncos have a core of between 400 and 600 fans......you may get a spike for some of the bigger visitors, but unless someone somewhere has a strategic plan that includes strategies for the exit from SL and 5 years + in the lower tier on little income, building from the bottom up, then there really is little use for the word "future" when discussing London Broncos as a viable professional entity.


With all projects, there need to be rewards and consequences. We know what the rewards are for The Hive and its owner, but what are the consequences of failure? Not for London Broncos, but for The Hive?


Buddy, there are kids and community work results all over the West and South West of London....if that's the strategy that is paying such massive dividends for Barnet FC then we are truly ed!



Indeed, the finances will be interesting.........because 1.85 million in SKY money will not bankroll the first team and their associated costs EXCLUDING coaches. That cost in 2012 was 2.7 Million quid........that's everything from wages, through travel, treatments, away accommodation and all the other stuff that running a pro RL team involves.
4 Million a year is the minimum turn over for a SL club to be competitive.......doing it on a budget is what London, Wakefield, Castleford and Bradford are doing in 2014 and 2 of those 4 will be gone by September.....that's the fact of life in regards to the top tier of RL in the UK......IT IS NOT PART TIME SOCCER!

A crap deal or folding completely, I know what I'd choose.

There is that but there comes a point, particularly when the lunatics are still in charge of the asylum.

........not putting ourselves in that position in the first place?

So the cost for the stoop was either 18.5k or or 15.8 per game?
Your comment on smoke screen and the cost of coffee, I do believe you asked for specifics, I gave you a specific, from a fans point of view its better than the rip off at the stoop, and the bar staff smile at you at least unlike the grumpy lot at the stoop.
As for use of the facilities at the stoop, mate I spent long enough last season and the season before in the tunnel on match day, their were facilities that were NOT made available to the broncos that is a fact.
You are happy to quote all other figures, marketing funding by the RFL is not solely London all clubs benefit, what was suggested at the forum is that the RFL should think about marketing the GAME more in the south considering our catchment area. It was a follow on to all the talk the RFL gave to success of the RLWC.
The club spent at least 40k last year on market btw
no-one has said we are better off than in 2011, everyone at the forum probably agreed we have gone backwards massively.
DH is still the bloke who owns us and is the money man so basically its down to him to appoint the CEO
Player sponsorship, actually they have put a price on it!
Willing and hungry diners!!!! don't know what you mean! questions were asked, and they gave answers honestly, there was no flannel, there was no bull.

Melf, I don't think anyone is actually saying TK should take over now, but as you say in a year or two or three years time who knows what is going to happen.
TK stood up and fended questions and seemed pretty genuine, again no flannel no bull yep he said their had been hickups and their were still things that needed work but importantly he was willing to listen to what the club and the supporters want and need to make it a success

a crap deal or folding or not getting ourselves in the position in the first place, the clock cannot be turned back, so you are left with the first two options, gutters we are where we are!! the clock cannot be turned back

I agree a bad deal is better than none at all. But an analysis of how we got into this mess is apposite too. We are still a basket case with the thinnest squad in SL. Still I will try to enjoy the coming season. Long may the debate conynue.

COYB 2014 Gigot and the Broncos got a ring to in.

Unless you're Michael J. Fox or L'Oreal. (Sorry, really starting to get into this Babylon Police Comedy drama on Channel 4).

True. I agree. We can only hope to learn from our mistakes, that is all we have. Let's defy the odds and get the lads thinking they CAN. Lets do this Broncos!

The cost of the stoop is irrelevant. Matchday costs, which include the cost of the stadium in 2012 were £222,244....that year we made losses of £2,202,049! 10% of out losses were down to the cost of the stoop.......will this simple equation not sink in Michael?



Gus would love it is the only matter of conversation was the cost of a coffee and the smile it came with......and I suggest the smile was pleasant because there was only 50 of you there. Let's see what it's like when 1,000 people hit the bar looking for a beer in 10 minutes over half time.


As I said, until we started getting y, we had access to everything we wanted. The relationship broke down when IL was replaced with DH and then once we started making sounds about leaving, we no longer became anything other than an annoyance. We were not asked to move out of the offices at the stoop...we chose to!

so? We are a business. Businesses provide a product or service and they try to get people to buy it. Over the last 18 years we have failed.....over tha last 3 we have failed with bells on and fist class honours! It is not for the club to wait for the RFL to dosomething. David Hughes has wasted 10,000,000+ on a club that he will never get back. His failings and those of his puppet CEO's can't be laid at Knock down Nigels feet..,....that is an entirely different thread!

..WoW......massive drop from 2012 then. £205,944 in 2012, £242,524 the year before and £267,943 in 2010

Michael, I don't pull these figures out of a hat. If your £40k in 2013 is true then the club should be stripped of its licence.



YET THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE IS STILL ON A WAGE........and you expect something to change








for 1 more year....then the RFL don't have to worry about us any more because we will slip into the lower tier. As for the money for 2014....the RFL have given our new landlord a marketing budget. If I wasn't such a devoted fan of the RFL, I could maybe look upon that as the RFL PAYING HIM TO TAKE US FOR ONE MORE YEAR TO SEE OUT THE LICENCING PERIOD......but hey, that would be pure speculation




They didn't when they first announced it......but good to see they have now decided on a figure. I wonder if they will update us as to the availability of players as they begin to attract throngs of sponsors.....





We admit we have made mistakes and we accept we need to improve........where else did they say they had got it wrong?
We know we need to communicate with fans more effectively.......no Sherlock?

Honesty? Honesty is for kids caught stealing.....REALISM is what is needed in business. The Current CEO has overseen losses in excess of over £6,500,000 on a turn over of £12,300,000 in 3 years.

LET ME TYPE THAT AGAIN FOR YOU

[size=200losses in excess of over £6,500,000 on a turn over of £12,300,000 in 3 years.[/size




London Broncos will not be in SL and will be struggling unless the funding of the expansion team is given a major overhaul. TK will not be investing anything he doesn't get back over the bar or on the gate.


'"

you know gutters typing in bigger font makes no difference,
and why do you have to resort to swearing? all know what you mean when you say "loving" and their is no real need for it.
Yes we all agree we are doomed doomed, those of us that turn up this year are gonna be watching poop, and we are all playing in to the hands of Gus, mate I am not asking you to start singing his praises.
We get it you are peed off with everything that the club stands for and everyone involved.
But if its the last season watching em coz we are down the pan as you insist, then sod it I will try and enjoy any bit of it that I can.
Just do some of us a favour and keep your gloating in check a bit until its happened, its ok you will only have to wait till Sunday aft before you can give it "i told you so"
personally its about the 17 blokes who are gonna go out on the park.
I will say tho I find it quite interesting that you have so much to say about a meeting that you were not even at!

as for TK being a business man and us being his tenants, what is your point?

My figure out of a hat! you are happy enough to spew figures etc we are all supposed to listen to yours but you will not listen to someone else's!?
So whinge whinge we did not get a forum when we wanted on, now we have got one, its whinge whinge whinge, we asked questions they answered and that's not good enough.
As for the RFL quip no I was not suggesting its Dave woods fault, but even Blake Solly agreed the FL could do more to promote the game as a whole in the south.