Same old persecution complex as ever eh, you've peddled that line since your 'appy 'ammers were actually a succesful football team........nobody is actually throwing dummies, if you could but recognise it you would see that you are contributing to one side of a debate with some support, and others are on the opposing side, doesn't make them a clique or a gang anymore than those supporing your point makes you a crew leader.

I must admit I also find PTB's posts to be rational, well thought out and coherent and I am in total agreement with his posts on this topic.

If we had been watching a team that was winning its home games and challenging for the play-offs, I doubt we would be having these discussions now. Sadly, we've made a right mess of Quins RL and it certainly isn't our landlords fault.

There have been many opportunities for the bigger club to help along the smaller partner but they have rarely been offered.

Thus I would suggest that our landlord can be construed as being 'at fault' because the Harlequins Rugby Union club chose to accept a 'partnership' with the London Broncos Rugby League club - a partnership which was supposed to exist at many levels before the Union club bought in fully - but the reality is that they have not really ever made a sincere effort to integrate.

Not only that, they have willingly condoned organizations like the disgraceful Quinssa association whom have distributed anti-Rugby League propaganda and off-putting anti-RL messaging.

Where? Show us. You're aware you can't possibly make a statement like that without backing it up, aren't you?

Pengy-Fertile imagination springs to mind as posted earlier this week.

Maybe Quins RU just wanted more use of their facility and allowing a RL side to use and pay for the facility was seen as a good business model-Probably not to dissimilar to lots of duel use stadiums- The only difference being the name change possibly, who knows.

Hang on a minute Mark, Quinssa is a very well run supporters club that does lots of stuff for its members and who seem very happy with it. If only we had such a fan club.

It's fair to say that there are a few anti-league QRU supporters, but no more than the idiots we have on board that hate everything RU related.

Re what you say about Quins not making an effort to integrate with us, why the hell should they? It's their club and one would think they have enough on their plate running a successful RU club. Surely it was down to us to show Quins that we were a venture worth getting involved with. Sadly, we have failed miserably.

Dan-Just to add to that they have been through Bloodgate in that time, staff taken to court, coaches sacked, directors standing down, money issues etc. I suspect we were the least of there worries.

We have to stand up and be counted.....and be thankful we get to use a tremendous ground

I think you are way off with your comments MR.

I have often questioned what we were getting out of the so called partnership, but had we not been such a poor proposition both on and off the field in recent times the RU side might well have been encouraged to become more involved. As it turned out, what was in it for them?..........so as a business they have rightly reverted to a landlord/tenant relationship where they can trouser the RL rent money and avoid any risk or investment. Had we been more successful since our return to the Stoop the outcome would possibly have been different.

We should content ourselves with the fact we are continuing to play at a great stadium with excellent facilities, which is something we should be marketing heavily in future seasons as most away fans seem to enjoy their trips to London (and that’s not just because they are nailed on to take home the points of late).

As for the Quinnsa comment…………we should be so lucky in having such an organisation to support RL!!!!! The comments on their message board are no worse than the anti RU rubbish which gets spouted on here.

The only regret we should have is that we could not make more of the opportunity handed to us at Harlequins.

Wire quin and UtS - agree entirely.

I don't think QRL are 100% to blame in it's failure. Unfortunately, we have had our fair share of bad luck with injuries and the loss of key signings, CEOs, Chairmen, and most importantly, a large investor who was wealthy and a passionate league fan.

I often think how things would have gone if Wigan had not come up for sale. IL has no doubt enjoyed his success at Wigan, but how much greater the kudos would have been, if he had been the one to make a success of rugby league in London.

It seems we must wait for another IL to come along and I fear that it's going to take longer than the 3 years that St David Hughes has pledged to support us.

Not sure how much of the above you are saying that I said. Certainly not the bit about dummies and prams.

Fact is that the link up with the union club has not worked out to anything like the extent that its original proponents (league and union) envisaged. And I agree with those who say that the main reason for that has been our inability to put a competitive team on the paddock for most of the last 6 years. Had it worked out the clubs would probably have merged into one organisation and then even those of us who are not enthusiastic about the Harlequins name and strip would have remained supporters.

As I've said elsewhere, the rot set in with our abysmal showing in our launch game which was well and positively publicised and drew about 8500. I'm not privy to what goes on between us and our landlords but we seem to me to do OK out of the deal - an excellent ground, especially since the club saw the sense of reopening the "BestWest" stand. There appear to be no problems with us playing U-20 games, unlike the hassle we experienced at GP. The ground's location and accessibility seem fine to me. I don't know whether the demographics of the area are any kind of issue. Doubt it, but our geographically widespread supporter base doesn't imply inaccessibility and if that place over the road can get 70,000 in, it can't be that hard to get to.

One sure thing is that the club must have learned the lessons of the last 6 years as far as the playing squad goes so that "London Whatevers" have to hit the ground running right from the start of next season. I hope we'll have the squad and coach to do that.

The difference is I accept other opinions Homer, there any many thing said I do not even comment on even though I disagree, but I would never feel the need to stoop low to attack anyone personally because I don't agree with them.

Why do people who don't like RU have to be idiots? it is just a personal taste, I have nothing against rugby union myself I think it is now run much more professionally than League and I used to take knocks for being a member at Orrell RUFC for many years and each time I came up in the draw for Twickenham England match tickets I grabbed them as it takes some beating the atmosphere in such a full stadium for an international. In the north the dislike for union is more still class based as it is not seen as a working mans game as League is.

I did feel when decided to take up the name of the Harlequins it would do us good, I felt their name would assist us in the world of sponsorship and corporate business, yes I agree we had to show them what we could offer, but sadly which is more important they seemed to bring nothing to the table.

Apologies if I did make it clear, I was agreeing with you about whatever decision was made by the club I would fully accept it and move on, but that does not seem the opinion here. I just hope when the announcement is finally made we can move on!

There is a guy running the Quinssa stuff called 'the Prof' whom heads the organization I think and I have been forwarded on the disparaging comments about RL by people like Paul Roberts in the past when he worked in the Post room and had a bit of spare time on his hands.

I will see if Paul has the emails still, he sent them to my old work account, but you'd be surprised how rude in a semi-offical capacity the stuff was - I know a few of us got one email, Nigel, Mike Wreford etc.

I don't need to evidence everything I write, though if someone will forward on a link to the emails they send I'd pick them out pretty easily... the stuff I'm thinking about was one in particular about the vulgarity of our supporters at RU for cheering and shouting and not following the unwritten social code but I've seen a fair few divisive comments, funnily enough he didn't want to know when I wrote to him!

There is a big difference between someone like Wire Quin or myself moutihng off on a forum and an anti-RL supporter who is clearly influential heading up the RU association and being openly critical towards RL. Please send on the links to the Quinssa emails before you say it is imagination again. I don't mind the Union club at all - I just think they were much less committed to true partnership than was believed and they could have stepped in to buy Lenagan out as the agreement was.

As for us being more successful, that to me is relative.

I would suggest that if Super League were to break down into two leagues of ten that we would be very lucky indeed to get a place at the top table and yet only a few years back we were in the top ten every year. The Union club could have invested then - and perhaps we could be as strong as teams like Catalans and Huddersfield. No investment was made when we needed it.

With respect, you would have to be silly to think we would have done any better v St Helens in the opening game... they had SL legends like Wellens, Lyon, Long, Cunningham, Roby & Sculthorpe plus top players like Albert, Talau, Gilmour, P Anderson and V Anderson in the squad, it was the nucleus of a squad that won everything... league, cup, grand final, world club challenge, team of the year etc.

Where things went wrong in my view was our inability to take down the likes of Wakefield, Salford and Castleford in the following weeks, meaning that most floating supporters drifted away seemingly forever.

The Quins experiment is nearly over now, I'm glad it is over, perhaps it could have worked but the Doctor Frankenstein's like Lenagan, Evans etc have all gone leaving us with the abomination.

Cheers
Mark

jaybs, I didn't mean that people that dislike RU are idiots (I'm not mad keen myself) I think that people that come on here knocking other peoples sports are daft.

Each to their own in sports and everything else come to that (as long as it's law abiding).

Mark - I've met the Prof and I would be very surprised if he was the author of any RL hate mails. Mate, you've got it wrong. There are a few people that don't want us at the Stoop but for the most part, they couldn't care less about us unless we are being a nuisance.

I think we should all back off having a go at our landlords and their fans who for the most part, don't deserve it.

Mods - can someone lock this thread before anybody says anything further that might entail them getting their arsses sued?

Not unique to League despite what the "flat-earthers" would have us believe.

Now call me a heretic but I think that this "re-branding" consultation a red herring, designed to divert attention away from poor on the field performance toward on off the field drama of a few "Quins" brand is killing RL in London ranters. I reckon it's worked. Some times this forum has resembled the letters pages of League Express.

The "Quins" brand isn't killing RL in London, having a e team, lack of leadership on day to day issues and falling for the "flat-earthers" obsession regarding attendances has done us more harm than good.

Finally, we appear to have solved the lack of leadership issue in the appointment of Gus Mackay as Chief Executive.

He has shown that working with a media partner the numbers of bums on seats can be driven up via low cost methods ie promotions. Secondly, get some quality players in, which appears finally to be be happening, driven it appears by a differing recruitment ethos by the current coach to that of the previous incumbant.

Now in 2012 put the 2 together and with the rub of the green and a bit more extensive locallised marketing to "recruit" some more locals and you have the making of a potentially half decent season, buy our standards.

In fact I'd go as far to say that this time next year we could be expecting to be fighting at the business end of the season for a play off berth rather than indulging in yet another woodspoon avoidence exercise.

Keep the faith..............

... the point is Loyal Londoner, that we were taken on as a "partner" but the Quins supporters associations doesn't even acknowledge a Rugby League team exists on the home page or anywhere else on the site that could have been helpful.. are we Quins or not? They have made no effort and the supporters are disparaging, this is the general state of snide remarks made: www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read ... 0,12530725 This club were never really open to the concept of a dual club Now that we have got fed up with the lethargy and decided we may as well be our own this is also seen as a bad move I cannot see any negatives from having our own identity again, it is not as if there are thousands of RU supporters who will somehow cast us off, they are just entirely indifferent bar a couple of hundred at most I agree we are arguing about the colours of the deckchairs on the Titanic when there have been three years of stagnation, but at last the iceberg seems to be melting

... the point is Loyal Londoner, that we were taken on as a "partner" but the Quins supporters associations doesn't even acknowledge a Rugby League team exists on the home page or anywhere else on the site that could have been helpful.. are we Quins or not? They have made no effort and the supporters are disparaging, this is the general state of snide remarks made: www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read ... 0,12530725 This club were never really open to the concept of a dual club Now that we have got fed up with the lethargy and decided we may as well be our own this is also seen as a bad move I cannot see any negatives from having our own identity again, it is not as if there are thousands of RU supporters who will somehow cast us off, they are just entirely indifferent bar a couple of hundred at most I agree we are arguing about the colours of the deckchairs on the Titanic when there have been three years of stagnation, but at last the iceberg seems to be melting

Quote ="markrammond"... the point is Loyal Londoner, that we were taken on as a "partner" but the Quins supporters associations doesn't even acknowledge a Rugby League team exists on the home page or anywhere else on the site that could have been helpful.. are we Quins or not? They have made no effort and the supporters are disparaging, this is the general state of snide remarks made: www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read ... 0,12530725 This club were never really open to the concept of a dual club Now that we have got fed up with the lethargy and decided we may as well be our own this is also seen as a bad move I cannot see any negatives from having our own identity again, it is not as if there are thousands of RU supporters who will somehow cast us off, they are just entirely indifferent bar a couple of hundred at most I agree we are arguing about the colours of the deckchairs on the Titanic when there have been three years of stagnation, but at last the iceberg seems to be melting'" Wow, is that the best you could find to back your story up !!

Quote ="markrammond"... the point is Loyal Londoner, that we were taken on as a "partner" but the Quins supporters associations doesn't even acknowledge a Rugby League team exists on the home page or anywhere else on the site that could have been helpful.. are we Quins or not? They have made no effort and the supporters are disparaging, this is the general state of snide remarks made: www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read ... 0,12530725 This club were never really open to the concept of a dual club Now that we have got fed up with the lethargy and decided we may as well be our own this is also seen as a bad move I cannot see any negatives from having our own identity again, it is not as if there are thousands of RU supporters who will somehow cast us off, they are just entirely indifferent bar a couple of hundred at most I agree we are arguing about the colours of the deckchairs on the Titanic when there have been three years of stagnation, but at last the iceberg seems to be melting'" Wow, is that the best you could find to back your story up !!

I wrote it and it wasn't silly. Sure Saints were a good team and we couldn't have expected to beat them. Problem was that our team wasn't of a standard that could compete with them at all. To get the QuinsRL venture off to a good start, we =#FF0000had to compete. We weren't capable of that and should have known it. I'm sure that fixture was chosen to give the new venture a bumper send-off. Back-fired totally. Next season, let's start with a home game against Widnes, Wakefield or Bradford [

.
No, things had already gone wrong - those results just perpetuated the trend that was started in the first game.


Now I'm with you.

I agree with you Lambeth Quin, I too feel that the re-branding is a red-herring (possibly dreamt up as a way of justyfying a new SL license for a failing London club). I'm up for keeping the faith and looking forward to next season.

Mark, the link you have posted has some positive remarks re QRL and I think the majority of the posts on that thread are entirely reasonable, imo. Also, you say that their board doesn't mention RL but it does have a link to this board on the bottom left of their home page.

Furthermore, as you seem to be thin-skinned re what you perceive to be snide comments, then you'll forgive me for feeling that you are being "snide" referring to me as "Loyal Londoner". Either that or you are taking the complete pi$$.

"To support the activities and enterprises of the Harlequin Football
Club (hereinafter called “the Club”) both on and off the field; to
promote and facilitate the interest and activities of members of the
Association in their support for the Club; to represent the interests of
its members to the Club."

That is taken from the constitution of Quinssa. We ain't Harlequin Football Club. That is why they don't have much to do with Quins RL. Fair enough to my eyes.

Quote ="markrammond" They have made no effort and the supporters are disparaging, this is the general state of snide remarks made: www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read ... 0,12530725 '" Erm, I actually wasted some of my time reading that, and seems like a load of mainly reasonable people being mainly reasonable. What's your beef? Maybe the Union club could have done more, but they're not a charity. Fact is as usual we royally stuffed this one up alone - no attempt at marketing beyond the sporadic half ars*d, and appalling performances on the field. We needed different outcomes in those two facets of the business, and might have had a chance. Any new name will also fail unless both are addressed (and we'll waste yet more time/resources starting from scratch yet again...). Brand has never been the main issue for this company, it's a massive straw man - it is, and has always been, poor execution.

Quote ="markrammond" They have made no effort and the supporters are disparaging, this is the general state of snide remarks made: www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read ... 0,12530725 '" Erm, I actually wasted some of my time reading that, and seems like a load of mainly reasonable people being mainly reasonable. What's your beef? Maybe the Union club could have done more, but they're not a charity. Fact is as usual we royally stuffed this one up alone - no attempt at marketing beyond the sporadic half ars*d, and appalling performances on the field. We needed different outcomes in those two facets of the business, and might have had a chance. Any new name will also fail unless both are addressed (and we'll waste yet more time/resources starting from scratch yet again...). Brand has never been the main issue for this company, it's a massive straw man - it is, and has always been, poor execution.

161 games played as Harlequins Rugby League, 100 of these were losses with 56 wins and 5 draws. Points difference of
-1,417 and a seasons average of 19.5 competition points are all factors in why the club have failed to pack'em in since 2006. I doubt very much that our jersey or name had as bigger influence than the depressing stats above