Broncos 2005 ave 3,918
Harlequins 2006 ave 4,917

25% up.....

Harlequins 2011 ave 3,124
Broncos 2012 ave 2,807

10% down

spot the difference

Hi Gutterfax,

I am wondering whether your season one data includes the double header in which over 12,000 fans were counted as present.

That would be pretty much the difference explained for year one.

Comparing the years is also not necessarily comparing like with like unless you discount results/league position.

We have dropped from 7th to 9th, stayed at 9th, then dropped to 11th, then 13th, then bottom for most of 2012 before Tony Rea saw us finish the season in 12th.

Whilst away support has certainly dropped for London, with Catalans eating into the leisure £ for the once-a-year Northerner trip and then a recession that has gone on for 5 years.

It sounds all excuses, but the reality is that 1,000-2,000 could sometimes come from the likes of Wigan and Bradford plus the Hull clubs and I'm not sure that is still the case.

There are some similarities in that we failed to win at home for the first five games of each of the first two years following each of the rebrands. Whilst our Landlord won all its games in the first year 2006 at home and has since seemed to be playing European Rugby etc since then.

I honestly believe that the Twickenham Stoop has connotations in player and supporter minds given that we have only tended to win three or four games per year in it and that we have little or no home advantage playing there. I feel much more positive away from home.

It is irrational but I feel that the ground opposite is like a Spectre looming over the Stoop and that we are overshadowed by our landlord to the point that the Rugby £ is spent only in one place.

I have nothing against West London but feel that the football demographic is much more relevant to our game rather than a different rival sport, so Brentford or whatever would work for me.

I will be controversial and say that Gillingham would also work for me, because if the Rugby League community did get behind the club that would be better than having no community at all as we do now.

If we could get a council with us, a non direct rival club competing for the same £ and a community surely that would be better than now

Cheers
Mark

remove the double header and replace it with the previous average for Hudds of 2,860 and we still saw an INCREASE of 8% in fans year 1 as Quins RL.....Hardly a fail.
Then there's the fact that we had a new investor in 2006, one with ambition and belief in what could be achieved.....and a Rugby League CEO who had worked wonders down in Croydon and a new Landlord who at least made the right noises.

compare it to the 2011-2012 seasons....

and in 2007 the average was 3,395 a drop of 1,522 people on the previous year therefore 31% down. Hardly stunning progress or evidence of a successful rebrand and no Gus in sight.

And as for Esher as a ground, you would need to move the pitch if you wanted 4 stands and it's designated as Green Belt, which may prove problematic.

Well don't bloody sing it then!!

Now r u including the 12,000 that supposedly watched our home game with Huddersfield in 2006? Cos that would be a bit cheeky wouldn't it? I'm not claiming that the new London rebrand has worked, I'm bitterly disappointed that it hasn't as I loathed our incarnation as H********s, but as you have fondly told us the only time we grew our crowds in the SL era was as Broncos at Brentford! Even your own figures show our gates falling from 2006 to 2011! I spotted that difference ok thanks!

Yes he is. If you use a reasonable estimate of 4500 for that game, the season average comes down to about 4350. So that's more than half of his +25% gone, There was also the one-off effect of the 8213 attendance for the highly publicised season opener game v. Saints.

...I've already covered this and shown we still had an increase...


...so there was no reasonable expectation of a "one off" for the first game back as the Broncos......


I am quite frankly stunned at the amount of people (more than 1) who are prepared to defend the club at the moment....each to their own I suppose, but 1,136 v a french team in 2013 compared to 9,638 v a French team 1n 1996 speaks volumes for the "progress" made by the club

Who said there wasn't?


Some of us (at least 1) are simply interested in ensuring that facts are accurate. I could go on, but I'll leave that to you.

The poster who said that the Harlequins re-brand was a failure...



I included the 12,500...then I (probably over) adjusted it to show the attendance as the average from a Hudds game prior to 2006....and demonstrated that we still had an increase on 2005......

then, just to be pedantic, someone said we had a big gate at out first game as Quins RL......all I did was say that there was nothing stopping the the same logic being applied to our first game back as Broncos.

Bottom line here is that those that want to defend Gus can carry on doing so if they please, but I refuse to give any benefit of any doubt to him.....he is a hatchet man who has cut costs everywhere at the expense of the soul of the club and has looked to blame anyone and everyone but himself for the alarming fall in attendances and revenues at the club...IMHO that is.

Defend this if you can!

The last home match attendance pre gus was 3,211 and the seasons average was 3,380 when we finished 13th. With gus those figures are currently 1,136 and 1,916 and we are 12th.......he has failed in his stated aim to build up attendances.

Seeing as you addressed that to me, I'll answer. I'm not defending Gus, he's got a lot, but not everything, wrong.

Not the right man for the job. Wonder how much competition there was for the post when it was advertised, and how much there would be now if he departed. Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.

from what I have heard Gus was recommended and employed without a formal interview on the advice of a friend of DH.......with friends like that, who needs enemies?

Other than SELCO (and nobody will ever know exactly how much they pay us) I am struggling to find any other thing he couldhave been deemed to have got right?

Gutterfax's numbers are a waste. They don't really prove anything. They don't take things into account such as the economic climate, venue, opposition etc etc.

WTF?
Bradford Bulls have now played London "away" 20 times in the 18 SL seasons....5 on the road games (4.900), 2 at the Valley (4,260), 5 at Griffin Park (4,000 average) and 8 at the Stoop (4,500).......they are the 4th best "draw card" in the SL calendar after St's, Wigan and Leeds....4,550 was the average before the wycombe night....not any more......it's now it's 4,394....seasons average is now 1,832....down 46% on what Gus inherited.
As for economic climate



I was back in blightly last September.....Oxford street was rammed with shoppers.......but you defend the incompetence all you like......

Trouble is they're all there to shop at Primark! It's all they can afford!

Ok facts man, can you give me a figure on the average crowd for games against Bradford that have had the venue and date changed with a weeks notice, when the Broncos (or Quins) have not won at home that season ?

Maybe Facts Man could provide us with some updated stats on Cas fan base given their equally inept performances this year.

Dismal, less than 1500.

If you question GF, you appear to be somehow automatically a defender of Gus.

Excuses are for failures......and believe me, we've been fed every excuse under the sun as to why we've failed to attract fans....



Prior to the start of the 2011 season, Harlequins Rugby League had finished in 10th and 11th place in the 2 previous seasons and even over the 15 years of SL the club had only finished in a Play-off position twice with 2nd place in 97 being the pinnacle of their achievements....in those 15 years and some 200 "home games", the team experienced 1 sub 2k gate when Sheffield attracted on 1,960 to the Stoop in 1999.

Since January 14th 2011 the team have played 32 "home games"...10 of which that have been sub 2k.....8 of these have been at games that HAVEN'T been moved..........

but you keep on finding excuses as to why we couln't get more than 1,500 to a game regardless of if it was movedat a weeks notice or not....

Your figures are very transparent. There is a lot more that you can look into than the figures you regurgatate on this forum. As I've said, a lot of your figures don't include things like venue, time of year or even deeper things like was public transport running smoothly. That may be down to the work I'm in but I don't really see the value behind your stats.

You stated earlier in this thread that in 2006 the club averaged 4,917 and in 2012 averaged 2,807. By my calculations, the recession was announced in 2008 and since 2006 the club has seemingly lost 2,110 supporters in that time. Of course, the standard of rugby on offer has probably been a key factor in this loss but I don't think the recession has helped. This club is unique in the sense that the fans travel from far and wide to go to Twickenham, whereas many northern clubs' fans are drawn from that town. The increasing cost in petrol, public transport and the tightening of belts amongst many will have had an effect on this club's attendance figures.

I am not defending anyone. I personally think London Broncos are a wounded animal and are just waiting for to be put to sleep once and for all.

They are basic stats...they can be read any way you want them to be, but they are pretty accurate and the main theme is that regardless of KO time, day of the week or Venue, they show an alarming drop in attendances in the last 2 and bit seasons...and no matter of analytical mumbo-jumbo will change that.

The Venue for the first 68 games played at the Stoop since 2006 was the Stoop...was about 3,750 (counting the double header as a 2,860 gate).....the venue for the next 13 was the stoop and averaged 3,124......the year after, 2 on the roads and 11 at the stoop averaged 2,807 and this year, of the 6 games thus far, the 4 at the stoop have averaged 2,111 a pop........

Kick off times and the recession are smoke screens.....the ST is as cheap as chips and the club have piddled about with game time since I can remember.....



yeah...attendances at pretty much every other pro sports club have maybe dropped by about 5% accross the board........London Broncos have dropped close to 50%




On this we can agree.......it really is frustrating watching it happen to a club that had (and still has) so much potential....

Would be interested to see your analysis. I have looked at this in the past and there seem to be no obvious correlations. What is, however, undeniable is that current attendences are dismal.