And this is the problem. Away crowds are a big help to the club and if they're not coming down the M62 then there's a major factor why the club are doing poorly both on and off the pitch.

The whole "Cougarmania" and entertainment at The Bulls in early Super League days was a big hit to both clubs. Bigger gates means more income, more income means more investment in the team and more investment means success on the pitch, Keighley nearly made Super League and Bradford won the competition early doors (98ish) and were in two Cup Finals. Recreating something similar when the club reverts back to the Broncos or whatever is chosen could breath life into the club.

Creating a "new" club is the way to go. Knock out Season Tickets at £100 a pop and advertise this in the Standard (Gus Mackay has said advertising in their has worked) and try and create something new like Celtic Crusaders/Crusaders RL did helped them. They were on their knees in Bridgend yet there seemed to be a new feel around the club in Wrexham, marketing was right and they created their own identity and correct target market.

Thought you meant [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jun/18/blind-datethis story[/url in the Guardian...

I can't believe we're re-hashing the same old '...it's all the name Harlequins fault, when we call ourselves the 'Broncos' again everything will be fine...' crap again for about the 117th time. I posted the below (hopefully) on a different site a few months ago and I believe it still applies. Certainly covers a few of the topics raised above. Comments are invited. Here goes -

'Yes, I also would like to see the club in a new purpose-built stadium with lots of facilities for the fans. It would sell decent pies, be on a major bus route, have a tube station just down the road, have a gigantic car-park for the many thousands of new fans and be easily accessed from anywhere in the UK. The lush turf would be graced by the studs of 17 full internationals (chosen by the finest manager/coach on the planet from the squad of 32, all on £4,000,000 per annum) and watched by 62,267 cheering fans week in,week out. Think of the atmosphere, the bonhomie, the joie d'vivre and the worlds a better place already.
The only problem is that it's unlikely to happen for another year or two. So, let me see, what do we have down at the Stoop?
1) A really nice stadium
2) Not a lot of people bother to turn up - spoils the atmosphere a bit - but whose fault's that?
3) A half decent squad of players that generally try their utmost despite being decimated by injury etc for most of last - and other - seasons
4) Managers that contrary to some of the stuff written and spoken really do seem to have the best long-term interests of the club at heart.
5) A chairman who's spent Gawd-knows-what of his own money to keep things ticking over.
6) Relatively easy parking
7) Relatively easy access from most parts of the UK


The Name and Colours of Harlequins. What's wrong with that? Instantly recognisable name and shirt the world over. It's still London and anyway, everybody knows that the Broncos play in Denver or possibly Brisbane. Or maybe they're wild horses? Plenty of those running around down here in the South.
Ok, rant over. It's just always the same old thing. 'Everything will be wonderful once we have a new ground'. Well, as History has shown - IT WON'T! Meanwhile, for the reasons mentioned above, why not make the best of what we've got, turn up in numbers, support the team even if they're being thrashed and talk about it in the bar afterwards. Even with the lads in the Blue, the White, the Red etc shirts. Anyway, you get my drift.
Probably see some of you tomorrow. Only a 196 mile round trip from down here in sunny Dorset, and, you know what, I CAN'T WAIT! Yee-Hah!'

And, before any smart-ass notices the time of posting and asks why I'm not actually at the Wakey game, I didn't finish work 'til 13.30 today which would have made things a bit interesting along the M3. I value my licence...

There are several reasons we do not come to the games any more - mainly the long distance and spending hours on the M25 on a summer Saturday afternoon. Also we really enjoyed the atmosphere when we sat in the Lexus stand but not when we were 'forced' to move to the other side of the ground. Seems a good game today, we are listening on the radio, and wish the Quins all the best for the future.

Everyone seems to say the Harlequins brand is recognisable. It is, there's no doubting that but it is recognised as a Rugby Union shirt and team, which it is. The only difference is if you get very close and have a good look at Joe Bloggs wearing it on the High Street then you may see those very small letters that say "Rugby League". The club needs its own identity, not to be borrowing one from another sport.

I can fully understand The original Broncos thoughts of jumping on the Harlequins bandwagon but it hasn't worked. The club needs to establish its own identity and market it well. Good marketing for the first game as the "new" London Broncos is surely going to bring in the crowds. 5,000 has to be the aim for the first home game of 2012 and beyond.

What makes you think that? Good marketing for the current Quins is surely just as likely as it'll probably be (much) the same set of players as at present. If they win the next 9 games, then yes, numbers will be up. If normal service is resumed, then no, they won't. No matter what colour of shirt is on their backs.

For me, the name Harlequins is too closely related to the Union team, and gives no indication of a locality.
Play at the Stoop and wear the Harlequins colours if you want, but why not just call yourselves 'London RL'? No need for the Broncos bit. Gradually these tags will disappear. It's really only Eddie and Stevo who refer to them now.

The "missing thousands" returning is the most hilarious quote I've read on here for ages - the difference in crowds as Broncos and as Quins RL is negligable. The "relaunching as a new club for a boost" quote is equally hilarious - for God's sake, how many times must we "relaunch", it makes no difference to our crowd figures. If we're London Broncos playing out of the Stoop next year, great! If we're Quins RL playing at the Stoop next year - equally great.

Does anyone seriously expect large numbers of people will come out to watch the Broncos next year (if that's what we'll be) with the same players as this year? A change of name doesn't make any difference, it's about quality of players on the pitch.

Flat cap alert!

Harlequins will always be first and foremost a Union club, I never bought into it for RL for that reason - it has been almost impossible to generate our own identity with their name and colours so for me the possibility of a name change to London ? is great news. From what I hear there may be difficulties with re-using the Broncos name due to Denver Broncos ? trademarking it, so London RL would work fine for me. I don't think the name Broncos appeared on the shirt badge so we could probably use the old crest no problem. I look forward to further developments on this story!!

thanks for popping in. now, unless you have documented proof of the "HELP WE GET" do us a favour and crawl back from whence you came

We're Quins - live with it or lose even more fans, constant changing name, colours and location will do us no good. Get the team right (which it was yesterday) get the crowds up and stand up and be Harlequins RL based at the Stoop in London

Ah, there's nothing like friendly banter over the North/South divide!

Hear, Hear!

The problem as I see it with the Quin's is that they've never really settled on either an identity or a home. Despite being in existance since 1980 in one form or another and in the top flight since 1996 you've always looked a bit uncomfortable with who you are and what you're supposed to be.

Are you a marketing tool for the game designed to show that they game can expand, survive and appeal outside it's heartland or are you a proper club that deserves to be judged on it's own merits? Personally I think there is no denying the fact that you were introduced into SL purely as a marketing gimmick along with PSG and Gateshead Thunder as the RFL had a moment of madness with the launch of 'SL Europe'. Unlike the other two clubs you managed to survive the fact that there was limited support for the game in London and be relatively successful, unfortunataly you didn't seem to be able to build on this success and get the fans to really make a success of what is now a franchise.

Personally I thought the idea of linking yourselves to Harlequins was a good idea at the time, giving you the opportunity to market yourself as a club and the sport under a recognised brand and develop 'Harlequins' into a larger sporting club rather than being two seperate entities. Unforunately that hasn't really worked for you (just has it hasn't for Leeds Rhinos and Leeds Tykes/Carnegie) and if anything it's watered down your identity even more. If you'd had success on the pitch it might have been different (at Bradford the whole 'Bulls' concept really took off when we started to really compete - it's harder to be cynical when you're winning!)

Whatever your board decide to do next needs to be something they stick with as jumping from one identity to another and one ground to another is definately not doing you any good! Building a club,an identity and a fanbase is no different to building a brand in any other business. Once you get known it makes no sense to keep changing it in the hope that the casual supporter can keep up. Again, looking at it from a marketing and sponsorship point of view (for yourselves rather than the game as a whole), I'd say that having London in the name would be a positive and allow you to appeal to a larger fan base rather than limiting by associating with another club or borough with its own loyalties and rivalries (at least until another London club is ready for SL to provide you with a local rival!) Do you go back to 'Bronco's'? I never had any affection for the name myself but you had your most successful period under that name so why not? My personal choice would have been for you to go back London Crusaders but that names being buggered up by someone else at the moment! London Eels?

The Sunday Times today say Quins RL will change their name next year.

Given we've been at the Twickenham Stoop for nine years and nearly one third of our existence as a club (1997-1999, 2006-2011) I see nothing wrong with Harlequins. It's as close to home as we have got and as good a name as any. I think it is telling the fact that there is no consensus on what we should renamed to anyway…

A few things I thought were important, but I'm sure people will disagree:

1. The enormous amount of good community work the club has done since 2006 has all been done under the banner of Quins (and more recently the foundation). Like it or not, by disassociating ourselves from Quins we indirectly disassociate ourselves from that as well.

2. As far as I can see the Quins club have been very good to us and seen very little in return. We can use the ground for the whole season and not just when the pitch isn't being reseeded, they have our merchandise in the club shops, old shirts, photos is on display in the bar etc. It seems like a bit of a snub to them to change the name on a whim. Maybe some people don't care (and yes I know we pay rent now) but I think it would be foolish to take the other things things for granted.

3. The club struggles with resources (money, staff) to do the things it wants to do today. To do any rebranding well is very resource intensive. And I'd suggest a poor use of them. I'd rather the money and staffs time were spent on other initiatives.

4. Minor point: all the best wins (yes there have been some) as Harlequins have been achieved with mainly British squads featuring a number of local players.

When we went 4th in the league half way through the 2009 season I don't recall too many people complaining about associating with the Harlequins brand back then. Nor for that matter do I remember many people complaining about associating with Harlequins when Chad Randall dived over to bring up the forty yesterday either.

Being called Harlequins is the least of our problems as far as I can see.

I would like everyone to read the above post by PTB. I'd like them to read it, and then read it again. Because he's absolutely spot on and he's articulated the feelings of myself and a number of others I know far better than I could.

I will geniunely be very frustrated if we change our name and location. I just don't believe change for change's sake is the right move.

I hope beyond hope we change our name to anything but Harlequins. It will be a great day when I can be proud to say the name of the RL club I support again. I HATE sharing a union club's identity. Please do it Mr Hughes.

I am not calling for a move from The Stoop, but one day we must aim for sharing a ground we part own! but No Way can I accept we keep the Quins name is killing us off and does us no favours, okay the on the field performances are what are vital to get right first, but IF money is going to be really spent to try and ensure we take off and brining in some serious signings how ever well articulated a opinion may be the name retention of Quins for me is a Non Negotiable Option! the quicker we rid ourselves of it the better.

Couldn't agree more. Exactly what I've been trying to say myself in other, earlier posts. Well said, PTB.

It's even on the club website so must be true

no more rah rah identity

We went in with Quins RU when they were a second tier union club with a view to merger. Since then the commercial success of RU has left us far behind and the merger is off, we are a tennant using the name on the door with no say in the brand.

We desperately need another body supporting us financially as well as David Hughes, otherwise at some point soon we are extinct. The only possibles I can think of are another millionaire, a local authority wanting to attract some business into their stadium/area, a football club wanting a partner not in football, or the RFL protecting their sky money with a southern club. None of these contributors will put any money into a brand owned by somebody else! I see the name change as a commercial necessity.

I love the Stoop as the best ground for club rugby inside the M25 and I am quite fond of Rugby Union as a game as well. Good luck to Quins RU and I hope they understand our problems.

Not only do we have the fewest fans but some of the stupidest.

Let's get one thing clear. We had no choice. We went bust.
We had two options available to us. VCA which was rejected or fold. We folded and only came back cuz a man with more vision than any one we've ever employed thought there could be merit in a dual code club. That it failed is not something to be proud of but just shows how narrow minded some of our fans are. They'd rather no RL than any RL.

I can see why we are looking at moving - it hasnt worked here. Will another move undermine all the work put in by the community club? Yes. Who will benefit from it if we move. Most likely Quins ru. Was this why the agreed to us moving in rent free, quite obviously.

Nothing would have made me more proud than to have seen Sykes score the win ing try at wembley and rip off his Quins top to reveal a bronco jersey an have him kiss the badge.

We've failed as Fulham crusaders and broncos so no surprise to see us failing as Quins. But for those who have stayed away. I hope youre happy that you keep RL in London the embarassment it is.

Apparently we're only allowed to spend maximum five years in any one guise before supporters decide its time we try something else and move on.