Why should we rely on converting RU fans? If it was the other way round there is no way I would go and watch RU and be converted from league. The two games are a different product. What is important is for those people who do turn up have a good match day experience and want to return regardless of whether they prefer union, football or some other form of entertainment.

I'm not saying we should rely on converting them, just that we have been give access to the RU database. I really don't care who the club target....but 4,258 is a shocking crowd figure for a game against the competition leaders and one of the Biggest names in the game........

And their opponents on that wednesday night in '54 were a very good team called Halifax currently sitting on top of the Championship. What do they now get 1k?. Now that is really going backwards.

The reasons why it was a one off are manyfold and not difficult to find out about:

1) The relaunch of RL in London
2) Birth of the Quins - in that first season there were many more "curious" RU fans.
3) First game played back at The Stoop for several years - a ground with fond memories for London RL fans.
4) Far more media attention in build up to the game.

If you are going to criticise the club for falling from 8,000 to 4,000 v St. Helens - you might as well criticise them for falling from "allegidly" 10,000 v Huddersfield in the same season it was a ONE OFF - double header.

We have so much positive news, such as the feature on Sky last week on kids playing rugby in London, the development of the amateur game but we don't seem to be able to convert them to loyal supporters?

There is a story in the RL media this week of a new Quins supporter who has recently made it a prerequisite of him accepting a new job that he be given time off to travel to see Quins play. He was classed as a 'new convert'. So you just don't know who is joining you. It may simply be that they are joining in a trickle rather than a tsunami but so long as they are joining then surely things aren't going backwards?

Think you will find quite a few of the kids who play in London do turn up, in fact a couple of the lads who play for elmbridge are the ball boys

problem is, when one of the west london teams are playing Medway!! getting back over to the stoop to watch the quins play becomes a bit difficult
All the open age games are played on Sat afternoon, so you aint going to get any of them!
Look at the press release for the LJL finals and the amount of kids playing and amount of dads mums etc watching!! When was it? SAT!!!!
Back to the age old question of when we play Sat or Sunday!

The 8000 crowd was a bit of a one off, first game of that season i believe and first game back at the stoop
The problem we have at the moment is that little thing called the recession
If yr a saints fan, getting to Wigan, Warrington, Salford, not that hard
Leeds, bradford cas a bit longer,
But lets have a look at the 3 distance trips from saints!! LONDON!!! CELTIC, Catalan!! sorry but lets be honest there will be those that go to all the games!!, there will be those that go to all games on there side of the pennines and then pick and choose there games over the hills, and then look and see 3 travelling games and choose 1 or 2
!!!!!!! Celtic new kids on block so thats gonna be a fairly strong pull this year
Cats!! well they got the beach!
Magic weekend or london

In other words we need to build our home support not rely on away fans

2000 - 3,013 and 4322
2001 - 3754
2002 - 4113 and 5540
2003 - 4214
2004 - 4757
2005 - 5,261
2006 - 8213
2007 4362
2008 - 6,000 and 3629
2009 - 4259

So the average against St Helens is 4,725. The bigger gates at the stoop of 6,000 and 8,213 were down to promotion/kids tickets, curious Union fans. The second gate in 2002 IIRC was down to a promotion in TNT, so you could argue that from 2000 to 2005 we grew our gates against Saints.

As for going backwards? It's a tough one to call. I think we have a squad with home grown players in it, a ground that is up to scratch and still have the hard core fans we had at Griffin Park. Yes, some people have stopped coming, for various reasons such as the Union connection or the fact that the club lack in Customer Services/relationship management, but I would think the nucleus of the home fans is pretty much the same.
I agree, away fans are not to be relied upon and we need to attract (IMO) another 1,500 regulars and pretty sharpish.
I have given up trying to argue the financial implications of this, so will just say that a new fan coming to the Stoop is not going to be impressed with a crowd of 3,250.......but 5,000 would make a better impression.

Lastly, on the issue of away fans I have totally changed my tune and now think that the West Stand should be for Quins Fans and the East for Away supporters. If you listen to the crowd on Superleague TV's highlights all you can hear is the Saints fans being amplified by that lower tin roof.

For the pedantic amongst us and if you are going purely on fans, we are down 11% on our last season as the Broncos and a whopping 18% on our first year back at the stoop (I have adjusted the 12,000 double header to 2,700 which is the Hudds average BTW) so it's a bit of two steps forwards 1 step back at the moment

Much as though I prefer Saturday games, it strikes me that one of the easiest ways we could get a few more punters in is NOT to be playing on the same day as our local amateur clubs! Surely the people who play/ watch/volunteer at these clubs are some of the most likely punters to target? Course if our game clashes with the one they or their kids are playing in well they're not gonna come to the Stoop are they! It is even worse for us because of how spread out across the South these clubs are and how difficult it can be to get around London /M25. Although thankfully a traffic jam on Saturday meant I missed a fair bit of Saturday's first half mauling by Saints! If you live in the heartlands it could well be possible to play / watch your local amateur club and then go on to watch your SL side later the same day. Different story if ,as was posted , you have to get back to the Stoop from somewhere like Medway. I know we gave out season tickets out to amateur players before but if they are playing when we are they aren't going to be present to make the Stoop look a bit more populated! Is it that difficult to sort this or am I missing something here?

duh!

So Craig, would you rather that the whole ground was open with each stand having a tiny sprinkling of people, and the additional doubling of stewarding costs?

As things go, I would close the North, stick the away fans in the East and home fans in the West. The marketing this year, regardless of when it started has delivered 1 crowd (hudds) that was above average because their were 1,000 odd kids/parent etc for the community day. I fear that if we get less than 4,000 for Bradford then the BIG 4 campaign will not have been a success.........
The Big 4 have so far given us:
Leeds...4,378 against a 10yr average of 4,618 DOWN
Giants...3,916 against a 10yr avergae of 2,800 UP
Saints...4,259 against a 10yr average of 4,764 DOWN

Whilst I applaud the community day for Hudds, the following game shows that it didn't encourage people back.

Stewarding costs are linked to the number of people as I understand the legislation. I believe you need 1 steward per 250 people so not clear that each stand you open doubles the costs

A Daily Star like piece of sensationalism one would suggest- Somewhat simplistic view point I suspect

its interesting that you say steward requirements are 1 steward per so many number of fans!
Would be interesting to know how the club decide how many stewards needed for each game then!!
Do they assume the east stand will be full?
do they assume the north stand will be full?

Gutter has got it right! lets go back to using east and west stand with season ticket holders in the west stand
Those that pay on the day sit where they want
If the club employ stewards for each set of steps in to the stand and they want to restrict the numbers its simple!
Dont use the 2 end blocks at either end of the stands, get people to congregate towqards the centre of the pitch

Simply close blocks AA and AJ ar AA AB and AH AJ on both side of the pitch
If those blocks are closed they dont need stewards!
and it still gives a good view for the TV cameras

while i am on a rant
Lets make season ticket sales easier!
1 price choose yr seat first to buy get best seats
Noisy lot can congregate in one area
Lets be honest stewards dont check the tickets unless there is a dispute with someone sitting in yr seat, so whats the incentive to pay top dollar when you can pay for a jester ticket and sit where you want anyhow

The season has not got long left to run
So its all for next season really

My preference would be to see the LV stand for season ticket holders. All seats unallocated and this would enable season ticket holders to bring friends and new supporters with them and be able to sit together. What's the point of allocated seating when the stewards don't enforce it. Obviously these new fans should only be able to sit with season ticket holders for an agreed time limit then they should be encouraged to buy a season ticket or use the walk up facilities. Three to five games should be enough to et them hooked. A one price ticket system plus concession price should be easy to manage. The club do not need to open any facilities in the LV stand apart from the toilets which are accessible from outside. These are opened anyway. Four stewards is not expensive and should be enough to maintain safety, they could actually be transferred from east to west stand.

The East Stand could be for walk ups and away fans again unallocated. Season ticket holders who prefer the east stand should be allowed to use their season ticket for entry into that stand. Probably around £10 per ticket. Keep it cheap to fill seats and get new fans.

If the club could do this it should show once and for all which stand the fans prefer. If it is true they prefer the LV then the club should be selling loads of season tickets in advance and get the money in. Too many poeple have said they are unhappy so lets try and change the unhappiness and build positive vibes

My preference would be to see the LV stand for season ticket holders. All seats unallocated and this would enable season ticket holders to bring friends and new supporters with them and be able to sit together. What's the point of allocated seating when the stewards don't enforce it. Obviously these new fans should only be able to sit with season ticket holders for an agreed time limit then they should be encouraged to buy a season ticket or use the walk up facilities. Three to five games should be enough to et them hooked.How do you manage this? Who knows how many games an individual has been to? A one price ticket system plus concession price should be easy to manage. The club do not need to open any facilities in the LV stand apart from the toilets which are accessible from outside. These are opened anyway. Four stewards is not expensive and should be enough to maintain safety, they could actually be transferred from east to west stand.

The East Stand could be for walk ups and away fans again unallocated. Season ticket holders who prefer the east stand should be allowed to use their season ticket for entry into that stand. Probably around £10 per ticket. Keep it cheap to fill seats and get new fans.

If the club could do this it should show once and for all which stand the fans prefer. If it is true they prefer the LV then the club should be selling loads of season tickets in advance and get the money in. Too many poeple have said they are unhappy so lets try and change the unhappiness and build positive vibes

Lets wait and see what PB has up his sleeve.

I thought we were in the east stand for Sky's purposes

=darkblue:38m3y57s

Quote :38m3y57sHow do you manage this? Who knows how many games an individual has been to?'"

:38m3y57s:38m3y57s

Season ticket holder would purchase tickets or their friend would purchase tickets giving season ticket holders details. These details can be logged on the data system which actually shows who has previously purchased tickets and to which games.

=darkblue:38m3y57sLets wait and see what PB has up his sleeve.:38m3y57s
I would think he has a lot up his sleeve - he appears to be very switched on and no-ones fool. He is building crowds slowly and surely.

=darkblue:38m3y57sI thought we were in the east stand for Sky's purposes

Spot on B1........having the fans in one stand and overspill/away into the north does nothing for SKYs TV presentation and nothing for Quins attendance figures......in fact it looks awful when the cameras are scanning the ground and all you see is empty sides.

The change to the east stand for home fans has been to the detriment of the game day atmosphere.......most (but appreciate not all) home fans would prefer to be in the LV, facing the away fans in the east. The away fans would also prefer to be in the east, not stuck behind the sticks.....so what on earth are we doing in trying to wedge everybody in the east!!!

Agree with the sentiment that seating for ST holders in the LV stand should be unallocated......the flexibility it would provide for bringing along guests and newbies would be a vast improvement.....all in all a better `game day experience` and after all thats what we are trying to sell!!!!

Not knocking you....more interested really....what ground did Warrington play in front of 104,000 people at??

It's awful sitting in the East stand - cramped - sun in your face and surrounded by the opposition. The West LV stand was a much better option all round and if they said we were going back to that next year my money would be in the post today for next season. As it is I'm not sure I'll be having a season ticket at all. In all the years supporting my team they have been let down to a greater or lesser extent by the appalling 'back-room' team. (Chris Warren and Dom excepted). Not enough passion ofr the game or concern for the supporters.

And all these stats - check out the time of year of the game too before you start comparing. It's school holidays now - may get a few more away supporters but home supporters from the 'affluent' south may be away on holiday.

Simplistic? Sensationalism? Daily Star


Get real.....any other way of representing the crowd figures since we came back to TW2 is spin. I suggest you look at the front page of the quins site and the spin applied to the Leeds crowd on June 20th. A record 2009 attendance figure it may be.......but it was actually the 3rd worse crowd for a visit of the Rhinos since 2000. Polish the turd all you like.......you can't hide the fact it's still a Turd.
How would you rather I represent a drop from a 4,238 average in 2006 to a current average of 3,512?

Quote ="Hear Ye!"Not knocking you....more interested really....what ground did Warrington play in front of 104,000 people at??'" Odsal, 1954. Though most of the speccies were probably 'fax fans. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odsal_Stadium

Quote ="Hear Ye!"Not knocking you....more interested really....what ground did Warrington play in front of 104,000 people at??'" Odsal, 1954. Though most of the speccies were probably 'fax fans. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odsal_Stadium

Quote ="BroncOnIon"Odsal, 1954. Though most of the speccies were probably 'fax fans. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odsal_Stadium'" And it was probably a lot more than that too...impossible to count. Does anyone have a time-machine? We could just go back and borrow 6000 of them for our next home game.

Quote ="BroncOnIon"Odsal, 1954. Though most of the speccies were probably 'fax fans. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odsal_Stadium'" And it was probably a lot more than that too...impossible to count. Does anyone have a time-machine? We could just go back and borrow 6000 of them for our next home game.

We could ask Dr Who, or Captain Jack at Torchwood. Then again you could go to Odsal, Belle Vue, Cas or St Helens, at least you would feel you as though you were in the 1950s!