Laura,
I'd love to see this happen and would support it. Problem is though, that this has been mooted a few times in recent years but no Quins supporter has ever been willing to take the lead. One seemed to be getting quite close last year but it didn't happen then. And without the leadership, I'm afraid it won't happen.

Gutterfax, I can very much appreciate what you are saying and I am aware that a number of supporters over the years have offered help and assistance to the club. However, a trust is slightly different in that it is not there simply to service the club and raise money for the 'black hole', it is there to become a voice for supporters and influence the club to ensure that future generations can enjoy watching Quins.

Currently, 65% of the club is owned by Ian Lenagan and as far as I can see, this situation does not look like changing any time soon. That means that there is 65% of the club up for grabs. A trust, as a legal entity, is able to hold shares and there is no reason a trust could not get the funds together to acquire some of these shares. Whilst I am not suggesting this would be easy, it is definitely possible and a strong trust, with a united voice and message, can be a very attractive investment opportunity for individuals and businesses alike. Even as a minority shareholder, the trusts influence increases greatly and a collective body of supporters pushing in the same direction is far more difficult to ignore than one person offering ideas and assistance, regardless of how good they may be.

The major selling point of a trust is that it is open and democratic. Every member gets one vote regardless of their level of investment and every member has a say in where money is spent. It is up to the trust to ensure that any money invetsed, produces a return for the trust, whether this be in shares, publicity or another method.

I appreciate that these are difficult times for the club and supporters alike, but surely it would be better to act now rather than sit back and wait for the club to disappear?

Also missed - Hendon, Barnet, and Kingsmeadow (Kingstonian)

How does this work? Normally trusts are administered by trustees whose decisions have to be unanimous. While the trustees have duties towards the settlors/beneficiaries, they do not have to follow their wishes.

A supporters trust is not run in the traditional sense of the word. Our supporters trusts are run as Independent and Provident Societies, or not-for-profit cooperatives. Each person joining the IPS holds one share in it and therefore has one vote. The board of the IPS are elected by the members and must then act within the constitution which is registered with the Financial Sevices Authority. Whilst the Board [icould[/i then go off and do whatever they wanted, they would be accountable to the trust membership and possibly the FSA if they did.

Do you think you started the slow death when you dropped "London" from your name? I don't live in London, but if I did, I can't see how I would be remotely interested in watching a rugby team that seemed to have nothing to do with the city I lived in, other than the fact that it is the nearest geographically. It must make it twice as hard for the marketing department, which is a shame, because it's a good ground that is easy to get to from the north.

We were called London Broncos in 2000 and averaged 3,430 that year. In 2009 we were Harlequins Rugby League and averaged 3,436.....so no, London being removed hasn't caused the attendance problem, the lack of any Marketing over the 1 years has!

It works for cricket ie counties, Rugby Union-Ospreys, Munster etc, Crusaders aren't called Wrexham. Sale have moved from Sale and now play in Stockport with bigger crowds. So no London hasn't made any difference

Fair enough. It was just my perception from 250 miles away.

fwiw the RU lot are actually The Harlequins of london

Are they?

No. The are known as Harlequin Football Club.

Now that we appear to have a marketing dept do you not think a re-branding along the lines of London Harlequins would make publicity / promotion easier? I know you've quoted a few attendance stats, and I don't dispute them but I'm sceptical as to removing London from the name has had as little influence as you suggest (I await being shot down in flames!) It would give us a distinct identity from the RU joke shop boys - it takes a bit of explaining to some folk that we are not Bloodgate FC!

at least you are being asked about it. When we were the London Broncos we were asked if we were an American Football team, so at leasy as Quins he word Rugby will drop into the conversation.
Harlequins Rugby League (or Quins RL) are fine. Apart from a few nutters on here who refuse to have anything to do with Union......because their grand daddy was once ignored by a toff or something like that......we have attracted a fair few double ST holders.
We will sink or swim as Harlequins.....reinventing the wheel (or re-naming it) won't make any difference

Absolutely.

Have you an idea what proportion of our ST holders are dual code ST holders? Just curious really. Suppose some could have been London Broncos and Harlequins RU ST holders.

Speaking personally I don't really have anything to do with union,don't follow a club or even watch the 6nations, I find it really boring compared to RL. My thoughts on any 're-brand' were in the hope it might give the club a bit of a shot in the arm now that some marketing seems to be taking place. Not wishing to have a pop but it kinda looks like we're sinking rather than doing a confident front crawl at the moment (at least on the pitch anyway!)

In 1996, London Broncos average Super League attendance was 5,859 which was more then the likes of Warrington and Cas but in 2009 was 3,436, the lowest in Super League. Why so? Success?

Success could be an answer, the club were competitive in the early 90's and doing well so that could have been a factor. Look at '99 the clubs average attendance was just 2,934 but after the Challenge Cup run and a glimmer of success the average attendance jumped to 3,419. The arrival or return of 500 fans may be down to success or it may just be a coincidence.

The move back to The Stoop and change of name to Harlequins was in 2006 and the club had a healthier average of 4,917 which would have been a lot higher when the better supported teams arrived in London. Why did the club's attendance jump from just over 4,000 to just under 4,900 in the space of a year? Where people in the Twickenham/Richmond area returning to the club after it left there in the late 90's? Or was it down to curious RU fans who bought a season ticket at the league team to see what it was all about only to find moaning fans, poor teams and poor entertainment?

How would I suggest at getting "new" fans in the turnstiles? There's a few issues I'd address. The kids are the future. The London Junior League's are Saturday games so playing on a day that doesn't clash with there fixtures could help.

My main target market would be the Union fans. The Union side has regular attendances of over 10,000 so thats a hell of a market to aim at. Both teams held a double header a couple of years ago when the Union lot weren't in the top flight and that could be a "goer" again. I can't thing of any examples of teams holding two top flight sporting events on the same ground. For example QRL v Salford then QRU v Sale may be a good fixture to use due to the close proximity of Sale & Salford. Another possible idea is waiting to see the Challenge Cup draw. If we got a Championship 1 team then you'd expect a big win so offering all QRU ST holders a £5 ticket (if the RU team were away that weekend) could intice them to see a big score for the pastel colours of Quins and they may come back. Another idea (probably the wildest idea) but why not sign a QRU player on loan? For example, a player who's RU season may have been cut short due to injury (I know, another injured player!) but that might get bums on seats from the RU lot.

Just my opinion, feel free to cut it down and tear into them...

This is just my opinion but if the RU lot haven't come along to watch the RL by now then I don't think they ever will. Mind you the idea of a few of their guys on loan could be interesting. Do they still have David Strettle? I think he's from Warrington and knows his RL a bit. Maybe a few RU players (if they show an aptititude) might entice a few RU fans out of their (so-far) studied indifference.

Dual code Strettle would be an interesting prospect but with international rugby union played throughout much of the year its unlikely to be possible.

Personally think you have to look elsewhere than union for new supporters - It's not that often i meet someone who enjoys both. If Wakey RU had moved in with us and offered me cheap tickets - I wouldn't have gone, because even £5 to watch a game of RU is too much IMO and I know many union fans who love their game but think RL is a waste of time.

But I appreciate that is just my opinion and experience, but I just think it will be harder to win fans over from their first love than "virgin" supporters.

Well, as a fan Up North in the so-called 'heartlands' (ha!), I'm hoping Quins make a success of it in London. Your marketing campaign looks good from what Chris Irvine has shared of it but I hope your guys start winning at home again to pull any new punters back again.

I think it's a shame that the RFL has got on the back of the club about the attendances. It's one more pressure the fans don't need IMO.

True, but maybe some at the club needed a kick up the backside to get them out of the " we are London so we are safe" mentality?

Strettle is from Lymm which is the only RU stronghold in Warrington. He went to Lymm High which is the feeder club(albeit a school-colts) to Lymm RU which in turn historically has been tied in to Sale RU(which was just down the road). He got picked up through uni in Yorkshire somewhere.

My experience of Union fans is that they are middle class(nothing wrong with that) and go to the union games as status thing(outrageous statement I know) I have found them to be uneducated on the intricacies of there game but enjoy a day out with there friends having a few pints whilst watching rugger-an accepted middle class game through its links to Grammar schools.

[iRL is a commoners game[/i You only have to listen to the language of some of the away fans at the Stoop. Simplistic thoughts accepted. RU fans in general are not into that. I believe the bloodgate thing was more a panic about the reaction of there upstanding fans than that of cheating on the pitch.

We need to find a new audience

Well I will tell you now wire-quin,you won't find a new audience in london with all those RU and football clubs to compete with. And I support what an earlier poster said re the name. I think there are some people in london who no longer know that london has a RL team in SL because they don't see the "London Broncos" name around anymore. Sadly if you say harlequins people in the south will automatically think of the RU outfit. London-quins RL(or similar)might have been a better name.

From my own experiences I agree that a fair number of RU attendees are there for the social aspect of the game, rather then for a deep seated fanatical love of the sport, and I think its true to say its a mainly middle class game - in my area grammar school kids played RU as their main sport not football as in comprehensives. Without getting into the whole class issue RL fans aren't on the whole from the same social group as RU fans, and are more likely to follow a team with a real passion, going to games to see the game primarily and not just for a bit of a day out. There will of course always be exceptions but I have found this, broadly speaking, to be true.

I still think the best place to look for a new audience is among football fans - I think of myself as an RL fan first these days and football fan second, I've been fully won over. I reckon at many of the London clubs there is a vast market to try and tap into which could yield greater results than continuing to lure the seemingly indifferent QRU crowd. In many respects the average football fan in London (should such a thing exist) is from a similar social background to the average RL fans and goes to matches to watch the match rather than to schmooze. We ought to be selling our game to this crowd as a better value for money sporting attraction - you would be pretty hard pushed to find a football club (Premier League anyway) with a season ticket comparable in price to one of ours. Maybe somewhere like Fulham but you'd probably have to pay more for their cheapest ticket compared to our best seats in the house.