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| Quote ="The Chronicler of Chiswic"Wrong. The DW, Galpharm and KC stadia are owned by holding companies and the RL and soccer clubs have leasing agreements with them ( I think Wigan's was a 99 year one.).'"
In Hull and Wigan, rugby league is the dominant sport, and I know a Huddersfield Town fan who complains that the football club is used to bankroll the rugby club. Rugby league is dominant in those areas.
The "London" side has had a roving franchise throughout its existence. Do you think it would fare better if it does what Crusaders have done, and that it relocate to a town where there is no other dominant sport, and try and represent that town? Hemel Hempstead was always a place cited as an amateur hotbed.
The anti-London thing I'm afraid is because of franchising, because people do not perceive the playing field to be level. Which it isnt.
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| Its interesting Sluggy that 2(one being Hull FC) of the 3 teams you mention as dominant have both during the super league era been paired off and joined up with other clubs- Surely dominant and strong clubs with sound foundations dont require that.
Out of curiosity what constitutes a dominant sport- ie why is Wigan RL dominant over Wigan football, ditto Hull FC/Hull City and Hudds Town and the Giants
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"The anti-London thing I'm afraid is because of franchising, because people do not perceive the playing field to be level. Which it isnt.'"
Rubbish. I've been hearing the same old nonsense for the last 23 years ever since I starting watching Fulham at Chiswick poly Ground. Even then there were RL "fans" mumping on about it not being a level playing field despite the club usually being at the bottom of division 2. There are a persitently tedious group of fans who will never accept us and will always find some way to bag us.
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| Quote ="Sarf Essex Taff"Rubbish. I've been hearing the same old nonsense for the last 23 years ever since I starting watching Fulham at Chiswick poly Ground. Even then there were RL "fans" mumping on about it not being a level playing field despite the club usually being at the bottom of division 2. There are a persitently tedious group of fans who will never accept us and will always find some way to bag us.'"
I wasn't having a go. The playing field isn't level, because you get extra points for your location. That's a fact. I wasn't saying it was unfair, just that some people see it as unfair.
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| Quote ="wire-quin"Its interesting Sluggy that 2(one being Hull FC) of the 3 teams you mention as dominant have both during the super league era been paired off and joined up with other clubs- Surely dominant and strong clubs with sound foundations dont require that.
Out of curiosity what constitutes a dominant sport- ie why is Wigan RL dominant over Wigan football, ditto Hull FC/Hull City and Hudds Town and the Giants'"
They were paired off to avoid relegation or financial meltdown. Hull has always been a big rugby area.
Wigan RL is dominant over Wigan football because more people follow rugby than football in Wigan. Similarly in Hull. There has been a slight peak because of their time in the Premiership, but once they go down a division, the crowds soon drop off. Wigan Athletic has always been the secondary sports team in the town. In Hull, the rugby crowds go up when Hull City are not doing as well, as the football fans switch back to rugby.
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"I wasn't having a go. The playing field isn't level, because you get extra points for your location. That's a fact. I wasn't saying it was unfair, just that some people see it as unfair.'"
Except we don't. In the July RLW the RFL's compliance manager Blake Solly said "The geographical criteria in the last round of licencing assessment has been removed from the process to determine which clubs are awarded licences for 2012-2014".
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| Quote ="Sarf Essex Taff"Except we don't. In the July RLW the RFL's compliance manager Blake Solly said "The geographical criteria in the last round of licencing assessment has been removed from the process to determine which clubs are awarded licences for 2012-2014".'"
Something I didn't know and something that would blow a few arguments on here out of the water.
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| Wigan RL is dominant over Wigan football because more people follow rugby than football in Wigan.=#FF0000That's the total extent of your criteria-very scientific may I add ps =#FF0000are all Wigan football fans followers of the town side or are they allowed to follow Liverpool, Man Utd etc Similarly in Hull. There has been a slight peak because of their time in the Premiership, but once they go down a division, the crowds soon drop off. Wigan Athletic has always been the secondary sports team in the town. In Hull, the rugby crowds go up when Hull City are not doing as well, as the football fans switch back to rugby =#FF0000would that not therefore suggest that premier football to some is king
Would the Wigan ground being owned by the football owner(accepting there is a 99 year agreement) maybe not suggest football is strong in Wigan
It will be some time before Quins can out do Chelsea, QPR, Arsenal, Spurs collectively for crowds-maybe Kingston semi pro soccer
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| Quote ="Catalancs"Something I didn't know and something that would blow a few arguments on here out of the water.'"
If you mean there isn't an argument for the strategic importance of London, hardly. It just means there isn't a separate point for distance any more (or in the context it was said clubs wouldn't be discriminated against for being close to each other).
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| Quote ="wire-quin"Wigan RL is dominant over Wigan football because more people follow rugby than football in Wigan.=#FF0000That's the total extent of your criteria-very scientific may I add ps =#FF0000are all Wigan football fans followers of the town side or are they allowed to follow Liverpool, Man Utd etc Similarly in Hull. There has been a slight peak because of their time in the Premiership, but once they go down a division, the crowds soon drop off. Wigan Athletic has always been the secondary sports team in the town. In Hull, the rugby crowds go up when Hull City are not doing as well, as the football fans switch back to rugby =#FF0000would that not therefore suggest that premier football to some is king
Would the Wigan ground being owned by the football owner(accepting there is a 99 year agreement) maybe not suggest football is strong in Wigan
'"
Premier League was a novelty when it came around, but it never displaced rugby league in terms of crowds.
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| Quote ="Sarf Essex Taff"If you mean there isn't an argument for the strategic importance of London, hardly. It just means there isn't a separate point for distance any more (or in the context it was said clubs wouldn't be discriminated against for being close to each other).'"
No I didn't. I meant that the posters claiming Quins RL are a shoe-in simply because of their geographical location are wrong.
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| Quote ="Sarf Essex Taff"If you mean there isn't an argument for the strategic importance of London, hardly. It just means there isn't a separate point for distance any more (or in the context it was said clubs wouldn't be discriminated against for being close to each other).'"
Which was my basic point. I'm not saying Quins shouldn't be given an emphasis because of their strategic importance, but the fact that they get that emphasis creates the perception of unfairness. Whether that unfairness is something that is justified is a matter that people disagree on.
My own view is that the importance of a high-profile southern side to the grass roots is important, and this can be seen in the emergence of London-grown talent.
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| Quote ="Catalancs"No I didn't. I meant that the posters claiming Quins RL are a shoe-in simply because of their geographical location are wrong.'"
They would be a shoe-in if financially stable.
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"They would be a shoe-in if financially stable.'"
Correct.
Regardles of anything else, we have only ourselves to blame for the current situation. It would be unfair for a team to be booted out next summer instead of us if we don't find a solution and quick.
As it is, I have fears that the Wire game may be the last for London RL in sooperleague for a while
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"They would be a shoe-in if financially stable.'"
Is your sig in reference to Wigan by any chance?
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"They were paired off to avoid relegation or financial meltdown. Hull has always been a big rugby area.
Wigan RL is dominant over Wigan football because more people follow rugby than football in Wigan. Similarly in Hull. There has been a slight peak because of their time in the Premiership, but once they go down a division, the crowds soon drop off. Wigan Athletic has always been the secondary sports team in the town. In Hull, the rugby crowds go up when Hull City are not doing as well, as the football fans switch back to rugby.'"
Say what you want about Hull being a League area (which it is), but two years of 24,000 at the KC is pretty good for a 2nd tier sport. Unlike Wigan, who have established Premier League clubs around it, if Hull sustained a run in the Premier League, they could become a large club, enough to average 30,000+ easily (expansion permitting). The circumstances between Wigan and Hull are too different to compare too, with Hulls population dwarfing Wigan. I actually think Wigan Athletic have done ok for such a satellite town thats wedged between Liverpool and Manchester. But as I said in another thread, I think all football fans think that Wigan are holding bigger clubs in lower divisions back.
And ofcourse crowds drop in lower divisions, they'd drop for Man U let alone the rest. Thats part of the appeal of having a top tier.
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| Quote ="red chilli"If the RFL bail you out again it's a disgrace, if you can't attract decent crowds and create revenue yourselves you have no place in Superleague, you have to stand on your own two feet.
Lets be honest rugby league is not a southern sport, when i visited your ground a couple of seasons ago i spent the weekend nearby and spoke to regulars in the local pubs all of whom agreed that rugby league has no place in London .'"
Not having a go because you are a Rovers supporter(we all have a cross to bear) but you are out of order with your comments.
I agree that the game is stronger in the north,but that does not give it a divine right.Quins means as much to their supporters as much as supporters of any club. I must admit I am surprised a city the size of London can`t attract a bigger crowd to the great game,and I am sure a few pub regulars arn`t going to change that.Its a pity,as R.L does need expanding to a wider audience.
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| Quote ="Marcus Notsquare":ygl3g3honews.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/london/8952050.stm
Won't go down well in the heartlands
'" sustaining level
If after all that it still isn't viable , then
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| Quote ="Marcus Notsquare"news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/london/8952050.stm
Won't go down well in the heartlands
'"
Who cares? They are of no consequence in this game anymore. The sooner we take the emphasis away from sport and what goes on on the pitch then the better. The future of this game lies in boardroom struggles, sifting through franchise applications and generally bending over the desk for BskyB. The game would be fooked without them. Fans should shut up too - they have no business being passionate about their club - they should toe the line, stop bleating and thank the RFL everyday for their joyous existence.
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| Honestly we don't know what they are asking for, it could be something as simple as getting full development area status back.
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| I wouldn't mind Quins getting help so long as the help was there for any club who struggles finnancially. If the RFL do bail quins out then that must surely count against them on their franchise application but because it is in London they will bend the rules to let them in.
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| If the RFL are going to back London they need to do it transparently and emphasise again that they believe a London SL side is vital to the future of the game. If it's true that Sky would likely cut funding without London in SL then the RFL just need to come right out and say it.
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| Quote ="altofts wildcat"I wouldn't mind Quins getting help so long as the help was there for any club who struggles finnancially. If the RFL do bail quins out then that must surely count against them on their franchise application but because it is in London they will bend the rules to let them in.'"
Mmmm Whitehaven ?
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| Quote ="Starbug"Simple answer , Yes the RFL and SKY should financially support the Quins franchise , but it should be done openly and transparently , What must happen though is that a timeline be set , inside that timeline must be a massive marketing push to get them to a self [ within reason sustaining level
If after all that it still isn't viable , then
'"
How about giving them 20 + years and if they cannot sustain a team by say 2010 they should be deducted points like any other team that gets into dire straits and if that involves them going into Championship then so be it! Sorry just woke up from a deep sleep what year is it?
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