No, i do not play for the u20's much too long in the tooth for that, however have been watching them for about 3 years after a number of players from my local club were brought into their squad.

After admitting that you do not attend any u20 games it is once again very narrow minded of you to assume that if there was an open selection that our team would get 'battered' every week, what are you even basing that opinion on when you havent seen any other teams play.
Also how many players do you see aged 18 or younger playing on any sort of regular basis in superleague these days, this comment is yet another made by you without any real thought. Yes Evans made his full debut today but other than that i can think of very few teams who have done this (although we did with Jamie O'Callaghan!), take huddersfield for instance who fielded mcgillvary yesterday, i believe hes aged around 21 or 22 and spent last season on loan at a championship club and is playing his first full season of superleague and this seems the way it goes for a majorty of youngsters these days (breaking through at around the 19/20 year old mark and these are only the exceptional talents), however other than that who do they have coming through? Larne Patrick has played infrequently before admittedly, but no more than Krasniqi who is also 18.
So if huddersfield, the current table toppers are viewing the loan route and the u20s as the best way of judging and nurturing the talent they have in their team (mcnally and hodgson playing for their side today) then what is your issue with Quins who are doing the exact same thing- see bolger and williams both at championship clubs.

Finally sarginson aged 18 and caro 19 have both been earmarked to player superleague this season by none other than our own head coach so how can you say we arent playing young players in superleague, were not even half way through the season yet where most of these boys get their chance via injuries and suspensions!
Just because your from the north means you have no more grasp than anyone else over academies and their policies, so unless your going to actually view any games if you can leave this secluded location you hide away in then I and a good few others think its best you keep your misinformed opinions on this issue to yourself.

I am basing my opinion on the performances of players under 20 in other teams, and the lack of appearances by our under 20's in our first team.



We are talking about Under 20's not 18's, and there are players that could play in this age group all over the place, in Super League, in the National Leagues etc.



I would be looking at Wigan's example rather than Huddersfield's seeing as they named a side with 9 home grown players in the game against St George, who have played in Super League, for one of the top sides, while being in the Under 20 age group. Huddersfield are favouring the dual contract route. McNally has been knocking around their reserve sides for years and has made 0 impact on the first team, due to the fact he is rubbish. When his contract is up, he will be on his way. Interesting you bring up Dave Williams as the majority of people on here slag him off. This would not include me either.



Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it.



Why didn't you have a go at daftdad for mentioning it like it was some sort of hinderance on my rugby league knowledge?



I have made no direct comments on the performances of our Under 20's, only towards the merits of that setup. I don't hide away anywhere either, most of the posters on here can vouch for that.

Lister, the Cassandra of Quins RL.

What would Lister say if they were getting hammered every week?

You are definitely a glass half-empty guy.

Though I do find your observations challenging and quite amusing, keep it up.

I think it is important to focus on the challenges we face rather than simply celebrate the apparent positives. This is what will drive us forward.

I would be personally offended if anyone questioned my commitment and love for this club. I hope those that have met me would concur.

I have supported the club since 1997 and will continue to do so until we are no more.

did Jerry play? anyone got a team list?

[urlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/9413067.stm[/url

So where are all these U20's "superstars" playing in Superleague then??

Have a look through the squads of Super League teams on Wikipedia. Check when the younger players began playing in Super League. ..

Anyone got a list of todays team, I would be interested to look back in it in 3 years and see how many of them "make it". I'd be optimistic and guess at 1.

Dave Lister is correct. Most SL clubs take scholarships through to 18s very serious. The 20s is a joke - I expect it to go up to 23s + more over age players in 2012/13. Of course it is good to win any game. But for club development it makes little sense to get too excited about the U20s.

CJ-Why do teams stop concentrating on the 20's-What happens to the 18-20 year olds? It would seem natural for players to progress through the 20's to the first team- or do you believe the dual registartion is the way forward
Hudds yesterday recalled there loan players so they could play(CC weekend) Why do you think they would do that?
The blonde centre for Wire last night played for the Wire under 20's at The 'Shot as did the Crusaders winger(welsh international) on loan from Wire.

With Quins apparent strategy to focus on bringing home grown players through I suspect this team/league is important to the club.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=485168 Here is another club that doesnt take junior development seriously-hmmm

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=485168 Here is another club that doesnt take junior development seriously-hmmm

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=485155&start=15 Funny old thing

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=485155&start=15 Funny old thing

good win for the young quins indeed but our u20's are suffering because of the talent we have that is out on loan to other clubs/selected for our first team.

mcgilvaray,cudjoe,patrick,lunt,molloy are all through our academy recently who played for the first team.
mcnally,cording,walker,wardle, wood are all dual loanees at the moment who aren't always available, and lawrence and carlile have played first team this season, we've also released some players recently who were good prospects but haven't had much first team action.

Bottom line is that smart clubs invest in scholarship through to 18s. High quaity 18-20 are in the 1st team squads. Dual code gives them the chance to play in meaningful games and 20s is contested training. A few are loaned to 'weaker' SL clubs.

The quins are not able to operate dual coding as it is not encomically / practically viable. Certain fans should not kid themselves that beating teams that put limited effort into the 20s is overly impressive - though a win is always nice.

What is linking to a thread supposed to show? I had a quick look and the comment about players going on dual contracts so they could play in more competitive games is duly noted.

Posters commenting on a 20s game..gosh. So because some wolves/leeds posters comment on a 20s game we must conclude that the giants do not put emphasis on dual coding and...... our 20s team was the best we could produce and.... thus Quins slaughtered the cream of giants young players........NAH.

Attended the U20's yesterday. Thoroughly entertaining game. As a result I have read this thread with interest. The comments of some posters concerning the quality of the U20's competition has lead me on a quiet Sunday afternoon to do a little bit of research. According to the Quins v. Huddersfield first team programme notes and the U20's teamsheet available at the U20's match Huddersfield U20's fielded the following from their 37:

Greg McNally, fullback 28
Elliott Hodgson, wing 25
Kyle Wood, scrum half 23
AdamWalker, prop 24
Jamie Cording, second row 26
Danny Kirkmond, second row 17
Matty Sarsfield, loose forward 35
Ross Peltier, interchange 33

A total of 8.

Quins U20's fielded the following from our 32:

Mark Calderwood
Will Lovell
Omari Camo
Dan Sarginson
Joe Mellor
Rob Thomas
Max Edwards
Dave Williams
Lamont Bryan
Sam Bolger

A total of 10

By way of further comparison according to the programme notes covering the Quins U20's game against the Rhino's the Rhino's team included four players listed on their website as being in the First Team:

Callum Casey
Michael Coady
Liam Hood
Brad Singleton

Now I know Quins have a different dynamic when it comes to squad size compared to the established bigger clubs but I had assumed (and I stand to be corrected) that all clubs allocate squad numbers to those they expect to feature in the first team during the course of the coming season. The talented "fringe" players who are not included in the first team planning for the current season (subject to injury etc) are those that are loaned out.

If the U20's team list for Huddersfield I got yesterday is correct I am even more impressed by what our U20's achieved given the reported strength in depth Huddersfield possess. The 8 Huddersfield players involved should be pushing the first team incumbents for their places and doing their all to impress their coaches.

It is great you are bringing players through but do not rely too heavily on the 20s as a key benchmark.

Ok Ceejames if you are going to patronise me best it's left here. But....

As regards a benchmark despite it being a full on contest, these guys are professional athletes after all, no Thomas, Williams, Bryan, Lovell and Edwards are never going to make the metres or clean breaks they made yesterday in Super League first grade. Quins will however need them (and others) to cover injuries and unexpected and unanticipated losses in form among our first 19 (or demand selection based on form). Clearly in your opinion the Huddersfield 8 on display yesterday are not expected to have to do the same. It's important for us that Mellor*, Sarginson and Edwards play together as a unit as often as possible and train regularly with the first team so that they know the defensive systems and offensive plays in this inevitable eventuality. Quin's need for a competitive settled U20's on your view of the competition therefore appears to be different to other clubs.

Interestingly the success or otherwise, rightly or wrongly, of a club's U20's seems to matter to a lot of supporters on these forums.

Anyway good luck to Huddersfield this year. As I've said to the Huddersfield supporters I've spoken to after matches at the Stoop and last year at the Galpharm after the drubbing we received there I'm very impressed with the on field and off field development of the club over the last 2-3 years and it will be great to see the Huddersfield win Super League silverware this year.

*Slightly confused by this. He's with us to gain first grade experience but not made the 19 as a minimum yet?

I would hazard a guess that the U20's does mean more to the Quins, if for no other reason than location. I wonder how many of those players on dual location would be given this oppotunity if the the other club involved had to stump up for housing etc? Personally I think it's great to see so many London kids coming through the system. Being involved with the club from 94 - 2003, we had to scratch just to get either the academy or alliance teams out in years gone by. Hell we have even donned the kit ourselves just to be legal with numbers. Lost count of how many times we arrived at Euston for an away Alliance game, only to have 13 players rock up. The grass roots are the life blood of any sport. One of the reasons London has always found it tough in years gone by was because of the lack of locals. When players where given a day off training, it was staggering and telling when 1/2 the team jumped on a train to go home to the north for the night! Yes it's been a long time coming and it was never going to be a short term solution, but looking at the number of juniors playing the game now and what they are achieving at all levels is fantastic. So what if they don't all make it, just the fact that they play this great game and have a better understanding of it is success in it'self. The problem now begining to emerge, is that when a good one does come through, the other teams offer them more money to lure them away. The trick is to find some way to keep them. Was laughing last week when I read about Saints spending so much on Kyle Eastmond only for Bath to come in and pinch him. Hmm, now Saints may be my home town but how is that any different to what they did with Louie? Bath used their superior spending just like saints did, just a different sport! Personally couldn't care less if the other teams don't take the U20's seriously, that's their choice, so long as the lads keep winning. Winning is infectious at any level and if they get a taste for it at this level, they'll want to take it to the next.

perhaps you should arrange to play your U20s against local primary school teams. That way you can win by a big score each week, keep winning and 'get a taste for winning'.

The opposition does matter when developing players. That is why many SL clubs want players in a meaningful comp rather than meaningless 20s games.

It is great that more kids (and adults) in London are playing RL. This strengthens RL. Hopefully the Quins can help spread the word and more of the people playing the game will get to the Stoop.

Didn't we play against a Primary school team on Saturday???