This thread was originally called "The All new Marketing Rant Thread".......how much has changed at the club since?


OK, I can hold my tounge no longer.
I appreciate that Rugby League in the Capital may be the ultimate "square peg in a round hole", but the perveived lack of activity is now beyond a joke.
The deal with Chessington, whilst applaudable, saw no increase in attendance. We are 1,900 down on our average from last year with the corresponding games and yet the club seem to think everything is rosey.
Now, as I prepare to get shot down in flames, the problem is one Mr David Hughes.
Without Davids cash and enthusiasm, we may well not have a pro team in west London, but he insists on playing the long game....which just hasn't worked. All the Kids that we are coaching are not coming to games, let alone bringing mum and dad. The community team, whilst winning awards are not providing us with any additional fans. The average age of a QRL supporter is well into the 40's and Thursday may well see us recording the lowest ever crowd for SL.....IT HAS TO STOP NOW.
I applaud PP's initiative in dragging work mates down on Thursday, but it shouldn't be left to the fans to increase support. We have all brought friends to games over the years, but not a lot seem to come back. Why is this?
I know the East Stand experiment is being blamed for all manner of woes, but is that really it?
The Club refuse to collect data on first time visitors and therefore miss an opportunity to invite them back.
The most proactive people connected with the Club are the volunteers......why is this?
I don't give a rats @rse about corporate box sales and sponsorship....what we need is an initiative to get more people through the gate.
I am not saying we need to spend thousands on marketing, but we need to start doing something. As for the appointment of PB....I was under the impression that we advertised for both a CEO and head of marketing.....Now, if Mr Evans is to take over as CEO in the summer, I can understand the appointment of a General Manager, but let's face it....he has no experience or documented evidence of increasing crowds (quite the opposite at Surrey CC actually), so what is his role to be?
Metro are just not interested.....neither are any of the other papers....so we need to make them sit up and take notice...by becoming customers
The Free papers are all hemmoraging cash at the moment and we should be haggling them down for some space. We need to get the message out there...not just expect word of mouth to do it for us.
We have a good side, great ground and a really entertaining after match party. Why don't we shout about it?
Lastly......if I can collect 100 emails and fill a 72 coach in 10 days...why aren't the club doing this for every game? Yes, it was a bit of hard work and I did gamble with my own cash, but it has shown what can be done with a little application. I do wonder what the back office team do during the week.....I mean, how hard is it to order the agency staff for the bars, the stewards and booking a band?
I do not mean to be negative, I just feel that enough is enough and if we don't start to market the game above the line, we will soon see sub 3,000 crowds on a regular basis.
If Mr Blanchard is reading this, can I suggest he visits [urlhttp://www.league.quins.co.uk/club/office_staff.php[/url and reads his Biog.....which clearly states "Paul is responsible for the day to day running of Harlequins Rugby League and his top priority is to increase attendances at matches"
Well Mr B....the honeymoon is over and I hate to say it, but thursday will give a perfect idea of how much work needs to be done.

Im totally agree with you GF. It does look as if we are going backwards instead of forwards when it comes to 'bums on seats'. So where do we go from here?

Increasing our profile in the media, I believe, is essential: more coverage in the local press and TV. BBC Radio London do a fine job for us but couldn't the TV show brief highlights from each match as well as highlighting the score? Also, what is coverage like in the local 'Informer', 'Guardian' and other local free papers? What about the 'Surrey Comet' and such like? I haven't lived in the area for nearly two years now so I am a bit out of touch.

At my last job, I spent some considerable time assisting the person responsible for PR trying to raise our presence in the scientific press. This was a significant success and contributed to the company's overall growth.

I like the idea of the Chessington deal. I believe that Quins should exploit the fact that they are based in London: probably the most popular tourist destination in the UK. I felt, however, that they should be linking with a travel company that specialises in weekend tours to London. You could have a situation where away fans could come for the weekend, go to the match and possibly see a show, the sights, etc.

As far as Paul Blanchard is concerned, lets give him a chance. He has put it on record that the priority is to increase attendances. Lets not hang him just yet.

Finally, one of the fundamental ways of increasing the crowd size is to offer a top-quality product. Quins' key product is the team's performance! Frankly, finishing 9th in Superleague is a bit of a hinderance. We NEED to be in the play-offs this season: preferably higher than 8th place. we NEED to make the Stoop a fortress, which thew team hasn't managed as yet. Didn't Sky say that Quins are the team with the highest proportion of Superleague home defeats? This year, I am confident that we will see the team performing much better than in previous years, providing they can remain consistent!

Hurrah. Gutters is back and not before time.

How dispiriting is it for the fans to stare at 3 empty stands what must it be like for the players. Our SL licence will live or die by our crowds and they are shrinking! Enery, verve and downright audacity is sadly missing.

Blimey, if the club put a quarter of the thought and effort that Gutters puts in to the subject we would be on a roll.

All power to your elbow.

Fantastic effort on the Celtic trip BTW.

PB has been in the job for what 3 weeks!!!! Hardly likely to put a 1000 on the gate in that time is he. Printed media ain't interested in RL - Sunday Times yesterday had NOTHING (other than the results) of the CC - even with the massive Leeds Saints game to preview.

With regard to Thursday night - seem to remember at a previous forum it was stated that the traditional "low profile" games i.e. v Dragons wouldn't be targetted but high profile games would be subject to more marketing effort.

Coaches - there is no point in putting coaches on for anything other than Sat/Sunday afternoon games and even then I would suspect that you wouldn't get more than 30 on it.

Oh well lets just give in then ....

The club seems to be going backwards rapidly, the lack of initatives are nothing short of a disgrace. Someone within the club needs to try something anything to get crowds up. GF proved that with a bit of initative things can work (the coach to Wales).

To be writing off specific games as not worthy of marketing is folly, just market them differently, true this thursdays game will have a pitiful away support, and not one of the 'big' oposition teams, but would have seemed the perfect oppertunity to get after work and local support along.

Umm, don't usually like to get into these marketing rant threads but some things could be done better (understatement).

Up until lunchtime today, the club site's lead story was still "Today's" CC match against Hudds.

Thankfully, that's gone now and the lead is Thursday's game v. Catalan....

Well, that's what you'd think but actually, the lead now is "Grand National Preview with extrabet".

It`s difficult to argue against all of the concerns raised on this and previous threads be it in relation to lack of marketing, crowd numbers, seating arrangements etc etc .........but we can`t be sure that anyone at the club is reading any of this.

Perhaps another `fans forum` is overdue, which the new GM (and perhaps David Hughes) could attend. I appreciate GF has been trying to get the message across, but perhaps its a collective meeting which is needed to prompt answers/action?

Agree with Gutters. My husband brought his football pal along to see the Manly game and he brought an Aussie friend who has lived in Twickenham for the last 2 years and had no idea we existed! Thought we were an ice hockey team. As I have said before when we last played at the Stoop there were always small posters advertising the match on all the pub doors going down the road, starting with the Cabbage Patch and going on from there. Never seen that once since we moved back.

GF, you make total sense and I think a large number of you share these concerns. I have a worrying feeling that this Thursday could see a crowd perhaps even below 2,000. If that occurred, lets not beat about the bush, it would be a disaster.

I've brought new comers along to three matches this season, and another coming to the Hull KR game. They've all loved the matchday experience and want to come back. Without fail, they have all asked me since then -"How are Quins getting on, I never see anything about them." This sums it all up. If people don't know what we're doing how can we broaden our fan base?

The real worrying thing for me is that despite the fact more and more London based youngsters are playing the game (at a higher level as well), they just are not coming through the turnstiles at The Stoop. Why?

We need to have a Fans Forum. And soon.

I would get their email addresses off them and put them on the clubs list if I were you. Also, email them the link to the club website and this forum so that they can 'get involved'.
In the National media you will only see RL imo if you actively seek it and then its small and tucked away somewhere. This is usually match reports of yesterdays games. Fixtures carry no interest to the National media. You will only really see fixtures for Soccer I think.

Locally I have heard we are represented but again if its not the sport people are looking for they will not notice it.

A few years ago I had a cafe and a guy came in and asked how long I had been here as he hadnt seen the shop before. I told him a year - and the guy told me he walked past the shop to work every day, and back again at night!!! and he was not the only one.
The fact was he wasnt looking for it. It was one of many shops he passed every day and he knew where the shops were that he wanted to go into. He was just in his zone like most people are with their local 'free' newspapers which I only look at when I am seeking something.

OK. My ideas.
1/ If the east stand is the only one being used as asked for by sky then the club make it home fans only.Tell sky that the club will not alienate their fans anymore.
2/ North stand for away supporters. If the away support bring more than that stand holds in advanced ticket sales possibly Hkr/Leeds/saints/cas may do then the overspill is a section of the Lexus properly stewarded and the bar would remain closed.
3/ Club should be utilising the roving beer sales dispensers. the scrum to get at the bar sometimes is ridiculous.
4/ The South stand would become the Family/community stand. Local colleges/schools invited also anybody that wanted to bring a family at a cheap price. I would charge as little as possible but get the money in other ways merchandise/ soft drinks programmes etc. etc If this became very popular then again the overspill would be the Lexus stewarded properly.

Someone will probably shoot holes in this but nothing ventured nothing gained.

Your passion is unquestionable. I have to ask the question though. Why do you presume the club would think everything's rosey?

Because of their lack of action?

Because they often have in the past and if they don't privately, they never admit it! A well-known phrase involving the words "wake up", "smell" and "coffee" don't compute!

I seem to remember that Quins' previous incarnation pulled in a truly grim 1800 at The Valley during the -poor millennial season (the season that convinced Branson to betray...err sell up) although someone posted something here once stating that there was an even-lower attendance and London therefore attracted only the second-lowest SL gate ever recorded.

What can be done? Nowt really without significant imagination and...CASH!!!

Ps hi, Surreyben by the way.

You have pretty much nailed it on the head. I look in the Metro most mornings - nothing; I get the London Paper every night - nothing; I look in the Informer every week - usually something (but not always); look in the Gaurdian - mostly nothing (sometimes something) - where do I live? Kingston - less than 10 minutes away!

I go looking, mostly I find nothing. If I am not looking for QRL, why would anything short of a double page colour spread catch my eye?

Historically the best attended seasons where the early SL years, which mostly had Friday night games - with newspaper advertising in the likes of the Sun and Express, aimed at the after work crowd. It also was in News Ltd's interests to push SL following their massive cash investment - that need has now drained away.

I recent times we have switched tack to the family feel, and standardised on Saturdays. However it appears not to be working - mild understatement.

I would allow all pensioners, under 16's and Students with SU cards in for free.

I would give every none ST adult attending a game a voucher for 1/3rd off the next game as an incentive to return. On the voucher a section to complete their details, some marketing questions and entry in to a draw to win a holiday or weekend break to the GF at Old Trafford.

I would create a family zone in the East Stand at the far south end so as not to clash with L&L / away fans and possibly some choice language (don't please deny it and I am not trying to pick a fight - I also include the north end away fans in this point). Part of the zone could be for family season tickets and the other part for familiy game day walk ups.

Roving drink sales - beer and soft drinks should return, it was one of the great inovations by Barry Maranta but seems to have gone out of fashion at most clubs - maybe in part to drinkers being marginalised by recent Government actions relating to health etc. Eg. promote sport in a healthy way.

BOTTOM LINE IS AS GUTTERFAX IS ALWAYS POINTS OUT - LACK OF EXPOSURE IN THE MEDIA!!! Until this is addressed either by buying space or making deals etc. crowds will go nowhere and more likely to trend downwards.


One small note re last Saturday - Bath v Quins. Any dual Quins fans where likely to have headed down the M4 to Bath. Not that it probably would have made to much difference - may be a couple fo hundred?

Bloody hell, I agree with retirethename

You idiot. My tax pounds have been wasted on your education.

I get as frustrated as the next man regards the lack of bums on seats and general malaise that seems to be part of the Quins RL structure currently. As I see it, we have two main challenges in terms of getting people to the games - the match day experience needs to look after itself and I know there are short comings there - and these can be split

1) The potential walk up fans and those within a small(ish) radius of the ground - they must become more aware of what's going on. I find some of the anecdotes on here quite depressing.

2) The fans and potential fans that travel a long way to the game - London is a big place !

And this includes the amateur clubs and their membership who are dotted all over the place. Whilst I agree with the vast majority of comments I do get annoyed when criticism falls on the regions amateur clubs for not supporting the Quins RL. Frankly, as far as I can make out there is a complete lack of engagement between the Quins RL and any development activity going on beyond their own doorstep.

What's does Quins RL mean to kids (and more importantly their parents) in my area, St Albans (30 miles to the Stoop), who are brought up on Arsenal, Tottenham, Watford, Saracens, etc ? Nothing is the answer, they may play rugby league and enjoy playing it but their club is St Albans Centurions and it is unlikely that they will be even aware of Super League / Quins RL unless someone at the club bangs on about it and organises trips etc - but this requires someone who is motivated towards Quins RL and who has the time over their club commitments to do this - not many I can assure you.

So I got thinking about the Broncos days when we had regional forums. I am not sure how successful they were or perceived to be but it certainly formed a focal point for that area - so in my instance it was St Albans / Hemel Hempstead - it gave the fans a chance to get together, meet a club representative, ask questions, etc, etc.

If that logic is rolled out a little further there must be an argument to suggest that it would be advantageous for Quins RL to have a local area representative (likely to be a volunteer) who would actively engage with 'their' locally based fans and 'their' local clubs providing club information, fliers, organising the occasional gathering, maybe organising Stoop trips, player appearances, etc. Database information could be provided by / to the club for mail shots, etc. As an example the Hertfordshire representative would 'look after' St Albans Centurions / Hemel Stags (and associated clubs) and all the registered fans in that county. This approach could equally apply to areas close to Twickers, etc.

Is this workable ? I have no idea, but I do know that the message that Quins RL exist and 'need your support' must be made at ground level. Just because Quins RL are in Super League does not mean that a sporting public brought up on Union and Soccer are aware of professional Rugby League in the Capital. The club needs to actively get the message out there.

Bravo!

maybe if you looked in papers that covered Richmond instead you would find a lot more.

How much does a full-page ad in one of the London freesheets cost, anyone know?

The saddest fact is - all this is a complete duplication of everything that has been said for at least the last 20years.
There will never be a 'rugby league culture' in London (unless we survive 80 more years maybe)so that makes it extremely hard to push the idea. The staff have not grown up into RL - they have been appointed to a job. Which they do to a greater or lesser standard, for a paycheque. They may love RL - or think they do- but they dont have and can't have a yearning to bring the game to as many people as possible. The few passionate staff people are not involved in the bums on seats side, they are cleaning up after the team or in David's case working their socks off in several jobs. It is always going to be Supporters who do the shouting about it.
Does anyone know if the team still go into schools to do assembly and health and fitness tallks? That was very useful a few years ago when we were at Brentford. And the local forum idea did work but it needed good will from the club. Tony Rea was very good at going to see supporters but I doubt Brian Mac sees it as part of his remit, given his previous attitude.

Why would I read the Richmond papers lving in Kingston?

Surely the club should cover Twickenham, Richmond, Teddington, Ham, Kingston, New Malden, Raynes Park, Feltham, Hounslow etc. in its search for supporters and therefore spread of articles in the papers?