I think it's time the club did the decent thing. Change our name back to London Broncos, move to a smaller community stadium with no/low rent, work hard to get 1500 fans to commit to 3 years of £200 a year season tickets and drop down a league.

Time to face reality and create a sustainable club that we can all be proud of. An RL club, with a good fanbase that would ADD something to the league it's in rather than lowering the standard as we are now.

2k crowds, a union club's name and kit, high rent to a union club isn't making me smile. Let's drop down and build to SL again with a proper foundation because what we're doing now isn't gonna work.

Change of name sadly I would go with! a smaller community stadium would disqualify us from ever looking at Super League as it would not be acceptable, to drop down a league is a joke! perhaps some people would have been happy staying at Chiswick and staying as a championship team forever, well if that should happen I would day go one step further and call it a day! as it would be accepting it has never worked and what land are you living in 1500 fans to pay £200 a season for a season?????

I disagree with this for many reasons; I think the position we are in right now is the best of a bad bunch. I don't know how much we are paying for the Stoop but it is the least of our problems - We need to put down roots somewhere and stop moving around. Everyone thinks that our problems stem from 'oh everyone thinks quins are a union team' - well no-one bloody knew who we were when we were the broncos/crusaders/whatever either. A change of name and strip AGAIN solves nothing.

I am glad that people on here are waking up and are no longer happy to accept such utter mediocrity from our club but I geniunely don't think changing the name and moving the ground is the answer. Our best chance of advancing the club is forming a stable, long-term partnership with another club so that we can build a native team and gradually fill up The Stoop. No-one is saying it is going to be easy, but we know we are crucial to Super League so its time we got the RFL to cut us some slack and give us a hand.

There are great strides being made off the pitch with youngsters - we are gambling on them (e.g. Sarginson, Caro, the lads at U15 selected for England) being good enough in the future and that is the big test.

Point 1 & 3 I agree with but points 2 & 4 are just crazy.

Something has to change. As it stand it's unsustainable.

I never thought chucking in our lot with Harlequins was ever going to help us in the long run, and whilst I've always loathed seeing London's RL team wearing their colours and using their name, I looked upon it as something between a flag of convenience and a neccessary evil. Several seasons on and I see no real benefits from the association with probably the most recognisable Union club other than having a good stadium to play in. While I feel renaming the club London (insert preferred choice here) is long overdue I cannot see how dropping down a division is going to help! Top flight RL is a tough enough sell in the capital, how hard is it going to be to get folks to watch when the opposition is (and no offence to any side I name here) Halifax, Fev, Dewsbury, Hunslet etc... rather than Leeds ,Saints, Wigan etc..!

Dropping down a division is certainly not going to help us build crowds - if we can't get above 2,000 for a game against Salford, what will our attendances be like against Championship sides? Moving to a smaller stadium will effectively rule us out of a franchise application, changing the kit and name will never happen as long as we are playing at The Stoop.

What are the options when you got an inferior product in an aggressive marketplace? We already have low ticket prices and relatively low overheads, so reducing price is not an option, but incentives matched by proper marketing can still yield results for Harlequins RL in TW2. But given that we can hardly even give it away, have we lost consumer credibility, have people who are interested in sport in general associated us with a poor team, poor crowds and as such something they would not want to go and pay to watch. A change of name may disassociate us from these falling crowds and the not uncommon view that we are owned by the only other professional rugby club in London and that we are the rugby league playing arm of Harlequins Rugby Union.

I don't understand how voluntarily dropping down a league would help the club in any way except getting more London youngsters in the first team.

1. No-one has nabbed the moniker Broncos, and given that we pay rent to Harlequin F.C. we should not feel obligated to retain the name, but it should only happen if we get another Lenagan level investor, because otherwise we are just pushing weak sh$t under a different name. Change the name, change the kit, make it look like we are the fresh new thing

2. If we can find a stadium that is cheaper, complies with Super League rules, and offers a better matchday experience then I am interested, otherwise why ditch our connect. We do need to find our home, but a real home, as the rented one is decent place, just in an area where we don't seem to be making much headwind.

3. We already are down to our hardcore support of around 1500 who watch the lesser teams come and play our team. Why risk any part of that core by voluntarily weakening everything about the club. £200 a year is a good idea because some people see us as cheap rather than value for money.

4. Drop down a league, I don't understand the benefit unless we are confident that their is absolutely no-one interested in investing in rugby league in London, then we might as well say to David Hughes, listen mate save your money we are all happy playing in the championship, and maybe some London derbies in the Northern Rail.

I'm pretty sure that in our agreement for being at The Stoop it is mentioned that we have to be called Harlequins (no London prefix either) and play in the union side's kit design.

I didn't know that, there was talk of a 3 year rent-free period and now that we pay £200k a year. I've also seen talk of a 5 year partnership written in July 2005, so I'm not sure if that if that's up or coming to an end, so we end up with four scenarios;

(a) same name, same ground
(b) new name, same ground
(c) new name, new ground
(d) new name, no ground

If the agreement is ongoing then our only option at the Stoop maybe to keep the name and improve the quality on the pitch, because off it we have pulled back; our cheer girls are exactly that, but they only have one pom pom each. Do you even call that a pom pom or is it just a pom, who knows but even our own fans are just embarrassed by this now.

Is there a link available for the agreement because there does seem to be alot of rumour and half-truths around these forums.

Switching back to London Broncos and moving ground to a dump would be the final nail in the coffin of professional Rugby League in London.

This idea isn't even worth being entertained. Luckily I'm sure the people that actually have an influence at the club have a different, and more ambitious vision, and I will be 100% supporting that vision.

For all those who don't want to see a name change and stadium move again, well tough. That is the club's plan A at the moment. All the noises coming from the RFL and the club at the moment say that. IF we can find a sensible long term stadium deal AND some new investment then great, let's stay in SL.

If not our best asset are us the fans, and if they can sell us a long term vision that starts with a drop down a division (so we can play in a cheaper stadium, have less player and admin costs) and re-build I would be more than happy to support that. All I want to see is the club doing something and selling a vision. At the moment I dont see a vision apart from waiting around to see what happens next. The Quins thing hasnt worked for me and I can't wait for us to get out (however I will be at every home game until that happens).

The clubs plan A is a name change and a stadium move? What evidence do you have to support that claim?

Why on earth do you think effectively turning into London Skolars is a good idea?

There are clearly some issues both on and off the field at Quins RL.

Some in our own game think we are owned by The Union Club, keep getting subsidies from the RFL and are exempt from the overseas player quotas. And sub 2,000 attendances only fuel the fires of the flatcapppers armed with their crayons and the League Express Letters page.

We appear to have no coherrent marketing strategy and whilst the recent promo was resonabely succesful in getting bums on seats, the follow up "activity" was poorly executed with a new "offer" arriving after the closing date to apply for it!! Now we know that is how Quins RL "marketing" works (or doesn't and are kinda accepting of this) but those who don't can only wonder what kind of third rate operation Quins RL are running. And is this the kind of sporting event that we they would attend at their own cost.

We have almost 500,000 people on our doorstop and that is where the club in particular should be selling Quins RL.

Meanwhile, we have an inexperienced coach who is clearly needing some help to get the team back on the front foot. What that is well covered in other posts.

At the end of the day this all costs money. We know that David Hughes is doing what he can but he clearly hasn't the deep pockets required to take a London SL "franchise" to the next level.

So when we wither and die then the flatcappers will be happy and the game will poorer for our demisie. And it breaks my heart to say so.................

If we drop down a division where will our players come from? Most of the current team would be off (we couldn't afford them and they would want to stay pro anyway.) That would leave us with a few who can't seal other deals and a lot of kids. We'll have no experience in key positions, we'll get trashed week in week out and probably destroy the genuinely promising players we have coming through our youth system. We won't be able to bring in experienced northern lads to assist either, who on earth is going to sign a one or two year part time contract down here when they can sign for a team a few miles down the road?

It's clear there are issues but I really don't see a future for a London team at Championship level.

Quote Gus Mackay, who left his managing director role with Surrey at The Oval to become chief executive of Harlequins, is confident the licence will be renewed until 2014. "We are very much part of the Super League strategy," says the former Zimbabwean cricketer. "We are working hard to get a further investment of half a million, either from new investors or a new sponsor. When that happens, we might have to consider changing our name to reflect that and move to a new ground. The extra money would also boost the squad." '" Here we go Listy are you still bought into the clubs plan A www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard- ... -gospel.do

Quote Gus Mackay, who left his managing director role with Surrey at The Oval to become chief executive of Harlequins, is confident the licence will be renewed until 2014. "We are very much part of the Super League strategy," says the former Zimbabwean cricketer. "We are working hard to get a further investment of half a million, either from new investors or a new sponsor. When that happens, we might have to consider changing our name to reflect that and move to a new ground. The extra money would also boost the squad." '" Here we go Listy are you still bought into the clubs plan A www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard- ... -gospel.do

Quote ="wire-quin"Here we go Listy are you still bought into the clubs plan A www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard- ... -gospel.do'" Oh dear.

Quote ="wire-quin"Here we go Listy are you still bought into the clubs plan A www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard- ... -gospel.do'" Oh dear.

Good article. Rob hits the nail on the head with this comment:

[iTo get more crowds in London, we have to get a winning side.[/i

We can run promotions, change the name, move ground whatever you like but we will be ing in the wind until we have a team that is worth watching by those beyond the hardcore fans.

If we had a regular top 4 side plenty of home wins, I reckon a lot of the union lot would lik to see what the fuss was all about. Can dream

Quote ="wire-quin"Here we go Listy are you still bought into the clubs plan A www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard- ... -gospel.do'" I think our own ground is an aim that should be one that is written down, we can't plan to tenants of anyone forever. It maybe a ground-share with another rugby club or football club but it should be an aim. Everybody sharing the real estate, making a profit. Year round use is what cricket, football and rugby union clubs seem to say keeps their businesses going. Could be that it is a marriage of convenience as Harlequin F.C. have a year round revenue and we have a home. Were we to get a sponsor on the shirt on an investor, who could also put their name on the shirt then we can say goodbye to the Stoop and do something that is ours. Remember it was a Man Utd vs Real Madrid game that convinced Roman Abramovich to become interested in English football and purchasing Chelsea a few months later. So get it out there that London is available and at a fraction of the cost of even a lower league football club. Hopefully someone with a little money will get to the CCF, GF or the games at Wembley in the Four Nations. The Stoop is our home at the minute, and will be until we move on up, or step off. The crowds will come not because of names, because the potential fans don't know the names, it's about product. The best product will sell no matter where you are. We have pulled in decent crowds at the Stoop and it would have been interesting to see what might have happened if we had stayed close to the top of the league. The territory don't mean sh$t if the product is weak. We are Harlequins RL until we decide otherwise, and it is either going to be for a good reason for rugby league in London or for a very bad reason.

Quote ="wire-quin"Here we go Listy are you still bought into the clubs plan A www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard- ... -gospel.do'" I think our own ground is an aim that should be one that is written down, we can't plan to tenants of anyone forever. It maybe a ground-share with another rugby club or football club but it should be an aim. Everybody sharing the real estate, making a profit. Year round use is what cricket, football and rugby union clubs seem to say keeps their businesses going. Could be that it is a marriage of convenience as Harlequin F.C. have a year round revenue and we have a home. Were we to get a sponsor on the shirt on an investor, who could also put their name on the shirt then we can say goodbye to the Stoop and do something that is ours. Remember it was a Man Utd vs Real Madrid game that convinced Roman Abramovich to become interested in English football and purchasing Chelsea a few months later. So get it out there that London is available and at a fraction of the cost of even a lower league football club. Hopefully someone with a little money will get to the CCF, GF or the games at Wembley in the Four Nations. The Stoop is our home at the minute, and will be until we move on up, or step off. The crowds will come not because of names, because the potential fans don't know the names, it's about product. The best product will sell no matter where you are. We have pulled in decent crowds at the Stoop and it would have been interesting to see what might have happened if we had stayed close to the top of the league. The territory don't mean sh$t if the product is weak. We are Harlequins RL until we decide otherwise, and it is either going to be for a good reason for rugby league in London or for a very bad reason.

"We are working hard to get a further investment of half a million, either from new investors or a new sponsor." Any mileage in adding a company name to Harlequins RL. NEC Harlequins, Vodafone Warriors, HSBC Warratahs, RaboDirect Melbourne Rebels, etc. Maybe Virgin Harlequins as they were the last ones to pay £500k to put their names on our shirts. Or maybe the Harlequin Virgins would be the more tongue in cheek one. www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... alley.html

"We are working hard to get a further investment of half a million, either from new investors or a new sponsor." Any mileage in adding a company name to Harlequins RL. NEC Harlequins, Vodafone Warriors, HSBC Warratahs, RaboDirect Melbourne Rebels, etc. Maybe Virgin Harlequins as they were the last ones to pay £500k to put their names on our shirts. Or maybe the Harlequin Virgins would be the more tongue in cheek one. www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... alley.html

Drop a division? Then we cease to exist as the flagship southern club in SL.

In which case there's no point in our continued existence.

Let's hope David Hughes doesn't share this line of thought.

Interesting to read that Simon Hughes article again. Like the comment that [iPeople go to sport for the three A's - ability, affinity and atmosphere[/i.

What a strange thing to say. A strong, well supported RL club in London in the Championship is great for the game. As an RL fan first and foremost I can see that. Do you think there's no point in Leigh, Halifax, Toulouse, Sheffield?? Very arrogant opinion, and it seems not just from you. I have a lot of respect for these clubs and would be proud to be a strong club in their division. SL is obviously my preference, but Im sick of pretending we're a SL club. We aren't in any way apart from on paper.