a) Why the nationality of our players matters so much

b) Why attendances matter so much (excluding for financial reasons)

Both serious questions.

Thanks.

They don't, but what else would people slag us off for? First it was too many aussies now its too few speccies............and what else would we talk about? No new shirts?

That seems to be it for me. All of our supporters seem to be delighted we have an English team. Why?

I know there are always loopholes, but I think we'd only be allowed a maximum of two further non-UK-trained players in any case. If we could find a couple of decent Aussies/Kiwis within our budget I'd rather have them, but as we probably can't I guess people like to put a positive spin on the situation by taking some perceived moral high ground.

It makes for a bettter atmosphere and gives an impression the club is thriving if the ground is close to full than if it's three quarters empty, regardless of whether that's three stnads completely shut or a few thousand scattered sply around the whole ground. I think there's also a snowball effect if the crowds are high. You get more media publicity, latent supporters think it's worth making the effort to go again when they might have drifted away and lost interest, people will make and effort to book in advance or buy season tickets, and having made that commitment they're less likely to not bother on the day if the weather is rubbish or the trains are disrupted etc..

Good points well made



I don't understand why the fans of opposition clubs have such a problem with us having low crowds though.

Agree with the crowds thing to some extent. However, it would just be nice to see a little progress for the tireless work that has been done over the years - especially when some southern union clubs can get thousands of spectators to part with £40+ for a quarter of the entertainment

However, the Aussie dominated team (quota relaxation) was something which grated with northern-based fans for many years. I think it was said elsewhere, the team being largely British based is a good reflection on the work being done here.

Junior league is thriving in the capital and realistic opportunities for these lads to play at the highest level is a unique selling point. It is also no co-incidence that young northern-based players find the capital an attractive place to play their rugby.

1,500,000 reasons why crowds matter......although I am still trying to figure out how the hell the club managed to do it....(let alone get away with it)

Not being a professional sportsman I don't know how much of an effect it is, but players often comment that they play better with an atmosphere generated by many fans, so that's another reason.

I personally think that attendances will rise in the summer months. Loads of people can't be bothered to sit out in cold weather while it rains....plus having a fully fit team may help. Sitting out in the sun with a beer watching the game will bring those "drifty" fans in.

You have a point. I'm not enjoying the cold element of sitting in the stands. Bring on the sun...

The quota rules are changing whereas you need a certain number of locally produced players-I believe it is going to be 11 soon. There is one reason why.

I suspect there is a suspicion we pay more for an Aussie than a Brit and with our poor crowds make a simple, possibly wrong assumption, Aussies will bust the club and move on?

Have we had good value from Robinson, Williamson, Dorn, Hill, over the last couple of years?

The club contributes to the national team? I think there is pride in the club seeing LMS and Clubby in the England squad.

Just a few thoughts -I stress thoughts!

Bu99er...I have to say I agree with you. I take a great del of pride in LMS and Clubby being current internationals and I am all for reducing the number of overseas players at the club, but I still believe that we need a couple more "names" to get a few more bums on seats......don't have to be Aussies.....just good players.

I agree about needing a couple of quality 'names' however, because those players can move clubs without moving home 'Up North', our only real option is Aussies or Kolpak as London or Up north is much the same to them.

Yer I understand all of the quote rules etc but people seem to be delighted with having English players but it doesn't bother me whatosever where they come from. Good point about the national team, I hadn't thought of that. I think if Hill played in our side now, we would be class. The other 3 have been overpaid donkeys.

Karl T is the best VFM overseas player we have at the moment IMO....
Dorn isn't the player he was at Griffin Park...and he wasn't that good then, but was running off some very good individuals.

, if you dont have enough interest to get people down to pay to see what is on offer , then just get them down by hook or by crook , but make sure you then do all you can to make it enjoyable despite what happens on the pitch as that is beyond your control

And then most importantly get their details , the cost of contacting people via e mail and text is virtually nothing , up to the 60's it was all done via local newspapers and basic posters , from the 70/80's local radio and teletext became the easiest mode of communication with your fan base

At Leigh for many years you knew if there was a home match on if the flag was flying at Hilton park

Get them down , entertain them , then offer discounted tickets to future matches

It isn't hard , but it does require some funds , but more impotantly the desire and will to do it

You will not grow your fan base by managing to get 100 people to sample your product , at most you will get 5 % to come back

Get 3,000 to sample it and that 5 % will rise to 10 % if there is a better atmosphere

You need to take a giant stride , not little steps

...or strides like The Giants have over the last 3 seasons,,,,,,free/subbed tickets, massive media campaigns (proper local media campaigns, not fri99in oyster cards and unwatched virals) and a constant collection of data on people in the stadium......
Result? Bradford gate 2010 (cold feb) up nearly 2k on 2009 (warm August)......rocket surgery it aint!

According to Sky Sports, they are down 1000 from 2009:

Huddersfield vs Bradford 2010
Engage Super League
5th Feb 2010 KO 20:00 Ground: The Galpharm Stadium Att: 9,774
Huddersfield vs Bradford 2009
Engage Super League
6th Jul 2008 KO 15:00 Ground: The Galpharm Stadium Att: 10,786

And this after their most successful SL season.

2 years


Always hard to try to compare like for like though, Feb 2010 Friday night vs July 6th 2008 Sunday afternoon, and Bulls away support may well have drifted off since 08 given their performances. I think overall the stats do show that the Giants have improved their gates over the past 2 seasons.

gate last year was 7,982 on August 16th......


either way

Huddersfield
2000-seasons average of 3,391
2009-seasons average of 8,235 (regular season only)

Harlequins
2000-seasons average of 3,430
2009-seasons average of 3,436

Whilst statistics can be manipulated to suit most arguements, Huddersfield have added 4,844 fans to their average gates in 10 years (including 1 year of relegation).......whilst London Broncos/Quins RL have added 6.......

I fully expect the usual "stop being so negative" bollox to follow, but a very little in the way of FACT to shoot me down


Salford and ourselves are in the mix for the chop based on crowds, Salford/cas/wakey on grounds and all the while, Widnes are ticking boxes.....something has to give and from a business perspective.....we are the weakest link. Only the "SKY" issue is saving us at the moment IMO.

Cobblers - the RFL won't cut off the development being done down here

So that makes it Ok to have crap crowds ?

...so what you are syaing is that if DH were to cut us loose, the RFL would prop us up financially? Would the other SL chairmen or boards be happy with that?
For as long as I have followed the club, the unsubstantiated rumour regarding us being the b'strd child of Lewis and Murdoch has been going around, but if we don't either start to fend for ourselves financially (ie...not DH bunging in pots of cash) or find a Russian Billionaire with early stage dementia then the club isn't viable as a Business. 1 double header to boost the average gate by 1k isn't going to fool many and it will do bu99er all to change the clubs financial position.
What is needed is a clear plan to make the people in Twickenham aware we exist, then an offer that is too good for them to refuse and then shed loads of work to make sure they come back......not 5,000 oyster cards, a viral campaign and a game against the best team in the world that nobody bothered to market (because we DESERVE better crowds).
I have always admired and praised the community and development teams work at the club....but now it is time to turn their attention to what makes the club a financial success......and unless we produce 5 LMS's Clones a year and flog them for £1,000,000 each then crowds are where the cash will come from.