Which ever way you look at it, the home crowd numbers this weekend for Quins RL and Crusaders RL stand in stark relief.

Wrexham is a relatively small town in Flintshire, whereas London, in contrast, is a major conurbation with one of the largest city populations anywhere in the world - complete with a fair-sized population of Antipodeans who've grown up watching rugby league down under.

I so wish David Hughes would at last accept that the only thing really standing in the way of the development of Qunis RL is Brian McDermott.

Are there any readers of this forum who still believe Brian Mc Dermott is the right coach for the club?

I back Brian because he's a relative but he's in a real spot at the minute. It's a real chicken and egg situation for Quins. Crowds aren't going to come without success, success isn't going to come without revenue from crowds to invest in playing personnel.

Quins are in the wrong place IMO. Being named after the Harlequins targets them at the wrong demographic really and I think that's a big part of it. Having your home in a union stronghold and carrying a union emblem isn't going to convert union supporters and may put off potential supporters who have no interest in union. Even the strongest marketing team in the world is going to struggle, never mind Quins'. Crusaders are a novelty in the right place at the right time (floundering football club, not a strong RU support, not far from the heartlands, and enough gimmicks to draw in the crowds even when Catalans come to call) so they have potential to get people through the turnstiles.

Now, Brian doesn't seem to be getting the best out of what is a threadbare squad. He's having to play some young Londoners due to key injuries, which is great on the surface but is the quality of junior set up down there going to match the likes of Wigan and Leeds and are they going to step up as easily? We've seen that Brian can get results but that's obviously not happening down so perhaps a coach who can get the youngsters through as well would help. It seems like Bri doesn't have any plan B. But the problems don't all lie with him. Who's your conditioning coach? What's the junior set up like and who's in charge? Does the entire set up need replacing? More importantly, could rebranding and relocating, backed with strong market research, give Quins a better lease of life? This guise of the London club doesn't cut it for me.

And the club's lack of identity, and the location, and finances, and terrible administration, and the history of the club. But other than that, yeah McDermott is the sole problem with Quins RL.

Edit: I replied in haste and hadn't read Captain Library's post, but he's got it absolutely spot on. As an outsider, it's plain to see why Quins can't attract crowds, and it is nothing to do with the rugby side of things (although that isn't helping ATM).

I'm wary about comparisons with the Crusaders as their situation more resembles ours in our first season at Craven Cottage. However, as regular members of this forum are depressingly aware, I don't personally believe that there is a market for a SL club within the M25. If the club is to remain in London then it will have to accept that its proper level is the Co- Op leagues at a smaller ground otherwise it must move outside the M25. Oxford has been suggested, but whether the City of Dreaming Spires would take to RL is another matter!

East End of london location would be a interesting move

As discussed yesterday with a few people, the Crusaders will be playing infront of 3000 crowds in no time.

Deary me. It is nothing to do with a "lack of identity" or "location" or the "history of the club". As you are an outsider, it's plain to see you don't have a clue what you are talking about if you think that they are serious issues to be concerned with.

Although the stoop is a cracking ground and a good set up and fan friendly, do you seriously not think bein located under the shadow of union HQ, and being called harlequins has a detrimental effect on attracting rugby league fans? Perfect example is when i tell ppl im going to the rugby at twickenham they automatically presume im going to watch rugby union. Surely the club needs its own identity?

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. No no no no no!!

Is that supposed to be confidence building or just wishful thinking? I would not wish on any club the way we have fell away supporter wise! - but that is me thinking and hoping positive!

Neither, just a bit annoying when this artificial comparison is made and we are shone in a bad light yet again.

Is that when they turn up at the stoop?

What is the problem then, on-field performance? Crowds were pathetic even when the team was doing well and playing exciting stuff. Harlequins RL can't give tickets away at the moment. I don't know how you can possibly say that a lack of identity is not hurting the club.

Crowds were low but at least we had a basis of building a base of supporters then. Next to nothing was done in marketing the club - now, the club are at least trying to do things, but its tricky to sell such a poor product.

Now, the on field performances have been so bad lately that even "die hard" supporters have been beginning to give the games a miss through lack of motivation.

I don't know what evidence you can present that proves that the identity is hurting the club - the number of people that stopped following the club purely because of the identity change is offset by the small number of supporters we have picked up from the Union side of the club. It makes no difference what we are called when a trip to the Stoop to watch a poor game of rugby league is so unappealling.

Spot on Dave.

I think our home performances are the biggest problem we have in respect of building our crowds.

We have only won 16 home games in the last three seasons and in the last ten years, we've only won our first home game once (2005). Not good enough, I'm afraid.

We've really got to start winning our home games as only the most dedicated supporters will keep coming to watch a losing team (I will be attending win or lose, but I don't bring mates along these days, as I don't want to put them off TGG).

When you guys moved to the Stoop, I really thought that the 'Harlequins' brand would succeed. Lack of success on the field, I would respectfully suggest, is the main reason for your poor support.

However, as has been stated, there must be enough 'exiled' RL supporters in London for the London side to have large crowds. Perhaps, then, it is the location. Perhaps an inner city venue is the answer.

Oxford is a city which, IMHO, could support a RL team. They've just won the Varsity match [I was at the Stoop a couple of weeks back supporting my son, and there appears to be a good grass-roots set up. Our own Darryl Griffin [& his younger brother Josh hails from the city.

But...

...SL needs a London team.

Broncos would have had a better chance merging with QPR in the Aussie heartlands than the Quins imo.

Of course it is true our home record does not help to sell a product, but sadly there seems something deeper that is seriously wrong with Our Club, for a while there has been some lack of interest all round and currently it just seems to be survival day to day and week to week. I supported the return to The Stoop, I still remember the World Championship games last time it was our home, the use of the name seemed to good for marketing, but it is clear it has not developed that way!

Right from the start it was clear the Quins supporter base were not really interested in us, perhaps as others have said the name put off attracting past supporters and new? for some reason The London Broncos did seem to have something about it as a club name. In marketing I have worked in bad situations but our current situation is currently serious!

The problem has been a lack of a sound business plan since day 1. We need to either carry on as we are and hope these juniors become damn good after a few months of SL, or move to Oxford or MK and get a really good deal to play in their stadium, and get some really good backing from the councils and local businesses as Crusaders and Catalans have. This attendance was with free tickets for all season ticket holders to bring a guest!! Really worrying.

I have been ripped apart on the Quins board for my "ashamed" thread. This thread was a direct result of the, IN MY OPINION, amateur and desperate way in which the club tried to market this game and yet the post above (and the bit in bold) would seem to point to me being right.
The Business, that is Harlequins Rugby League has been run in an amateur way, with 1 person propping them up and seemingly unwilling to "waste money" on marketing whilst bankrolling them to the tune of £30k a week last year

Still, it's his money and his club and so long as Lewis decides to come out in support of the club after 10 weeks earlier issuing a warning regarding attendances, I am sure Quins RL will get a licence next time around and I will be told that I was wrong to worry/care about gates. Then, when they are still playing infront of 2,500 people in 2014.......they had better pray that Wakey or Cas are still looking for a new stadium.

Number 1 reason why the crowds have gone down in the last 2 years, from a poor enough start: The team has got worse and worse, and is now absolutely bloomin' useless. And don't give me any of that injuries balls, because the coach hasn't got a clue. Even when the Broncos hit rock bottom back in the old Mitch Stringer and Andrew Brocklehurst days there was more reason to come and watch. These days? You need to be a masochist.

Now there may well be 1,000 people who need rugby league in their lives enough to call themselves that, God knows I've heard enough stories of people carrying posts onto the pitch at Chiswick to know that some people will always watch the side, through hell's fire. But that ain't a recipe for building a mainstream supporter base from the local community. I've got season tickets at Quins and Rovers, so must officially be a proper league saddo - but I certainly couldn't be bothered to drive down to the Stoop last Saturday. What was the point? Dull, dull, dull.

If anyone thinks they can see light at the end of the tunnel this season, don't get too excited - it'll be a train.

Tell you what....after reading an earlier post directed personally at me I have been in a foul mood........but that my friend has put a smile back on my face. Thank You!

dont know much about london but from a distance it seems that they have got some reasonable crowds in the richard branson london broncos era, they had good crowds when they started out as fulham in patnership with a soccer culb i think!

sub 5,000 are just not exceptable for super league and sub 3,000 crowds are for the next level down i think.


i think that rfl needs to work with london super league side, cross promote with test matches, challenge cup final etc have quins people at the ground handing out programes fund raising, metion quins rl on loudspeaker, have signage advertising quins at test matches in london + challenge cup, get local who playing the game to show up and aussie and kiwi's who live in london plus hardcore 2,000 odd fans and youve got a 5,000 crowd!

look at the melbourne storm out of a crowd of kiwi's, aussies originaly from the rugby states, a few english and pacific islanders and a few interestd melbournians, get decent crowds. but it took nrl to have origin and test in melbourne in partnership with the storm to promote the code in an area where it was a tiny minority sport it now has a good niche market! could be done in london too1

Are you Gutterfax in disguise ????????

Nope.....he is just someone who agrees with my theory and has yet to get bored/annoyed/angry/suicidal at the frequency I propogate it.