I honestly think your style of play is a significant reason why you don't entice/hold on to new people. Whilst it's effective it isn't good to watch. You can get away with that if your fans see you as major contenders for trophies but Huddersfield aren't that either.

Also, I wonder how much effort is actually put into the matchdays by your club? Both in terms of marketing but also matchdays activities and entertainment.

Being a Leeds fan I obviously only come to the John Smith's once or twice a year but each time I've come its seemed as if there was very little in terms of matchday activities, now this doesn't bother me as I'm there for the game but many people aren't these days. It's a leisure activity for those who aren't diehard RL fans and so competes with a myriad of other possibilities so some people, especially those with kids, look for more than just the game from a sports club these days.
May be Ive missed it the times I've been to Hudds but I've never really seen anything much happening around the ground or pre-match/half-time etc.
At Leeds, even on a day when they don't really put any effort into it, there's a "family" bar that has activities and little games for kids pre-match and matchday photographers going round taking pictures that'll go in an online album that people can access, along with some kind of pre-match singer/band and at least 8 kids amateur teams playing at half time.
That's the bare minimum at Leeds and whilst not ground breaking or anything it just helps get at least another few hundred in the ground and offers a far better chance of those returning regardless of what happens on the pitch.

I can't really comment on your clubs marketing, but I'd assume it's not great, I don't think any RL clubs is.

We do all that- kicking games outside, fire engines, bouncy castles, army vehicles, even had the bloodhound supersonic car and soldiers and guns! Bearing in mind space is limited. I've lost count of the number of times my lad has played during the half time interval. All this has been done and more- it makes little difference apart from costing money.

the biggest difference between us and Leeds, was that they have long been regarded as a top side with a big following, even through all those barren years without winning things ( before 2004 for any rhinos reading

) they were always a big club with big support, so as a club it's easy for them to attract people.

i maintain that one of our biggest problems is that we had so many years in the doldrums that there just wasn't much "bloodline" in our supporter base, all the other existing super league clubs were strong clubs who had all played in the top tier and who all had a hardcore support, most of that support had been handed down through the generations, we lacked that and i think for most part we still do.
because of the competition for leisure activities these days and everywhere been accessible on every day of the week, the younger generation aren't as "hardcore" as previous generations, whereas lads used to go the games with dads etc that's not happening anymore, but in our case i don't think it's happened for 30+ years now.

it also hasn't helped us with the changing days of the games, a lot of our support are young families, couples, older generation who have lost the commitment to attend as they don't know what days we are playing and are reluctant or unable to go to games on thursday and friday nights and have possibly found other things to do with their time and money now.

then of course, i just don't think there is the interest in the Huddersfield public, look how many people are attending the shops and leisure facilities near to the stadium on a match day... could we not work with these companies to entice some of those people to the games?

was the marketing better when robbie paul was pulling the strings....

hard to say really, there was certainly more of a buzz, but that could be down to the extra couple of thousand attracted by the cheap season tickets.
sadly those days seem light years away now.

League position means b*gg3r all.

It's proper trophies not hub caps that count.

That's the currency these days like it or not.

Robbie is very astute and had a number of ideas but unfortunately he didn't have the budget to implement them

Pre Super League I don't think Leeds' crowds were anywhere near they are now.

I'd stand corrected but has anybody Leeds' average attendances pre Super League?

i.e. When they weren't winning anywhere near the trophies they have in Super League.

Bull - we got 9,000 the night we won the Hub Cap, because there was a genuine buzz in a town that has absolutely no real success. We got 23,000 down to Wembley in 2009. We've just failed to really capitalise on all this because the community elements and the marketing elements, to certain members of the upper echelons of the club, are the same when they absolutely are not. The club needs to MARKET itself and signing on a few extra marketing interns could be as valuable as signing a top player, because if we could get a few more fans, we'd be closer to the day we might be able to survive without Ken.

They were nowhere near what they are now, purely and simply because of the demise of the 'Mighty Whites'

When they get back into the premiership I'm sure you will see a marked drop off of Rugby League attendances.

So where are those 9,000 now?

If you think you are going to 'market' your way to 10,000 average gates year on year by just winning the LLS and then bombing in the play offs you really are deluding yourself.

Why did most of those 23,000 at Wembley disappear into the ether?

Because we've not even appeared in a final since.

People are attracted to success - simples.

There will always be a core of supporters that will stick through thick and thin but most want to follow a successful team.

You only have to look to the Bulls to see that.

You really think a Rhinos side that wins trophies year in year out will see a drop in attendances because of the 'Mighty Whites'?

What do you call a 'marked drop'?

1,000, 5,000, 10,000?

Leeds were pretty well supported in the pre SL days, even thought they didn't win owt, in the 1994/95 season they averaged 12,266 despite their last success been the regal trophy in 1983,since 1987 they have only failed to average less than 10,000 once, in 1996, so Leeds have always had the fan base to start with
as i said can't really compare us to Leeds, or indeed any other SL club who to my knowledge none of them have ever been as low as we have.

we literally had to 'start again' in terms of building support.

Some of the things you mention here I agree with, there is a lot of competition these days for Rugby league. The game now has to be regarded first and foremost as entertainment, And yes I know from your previous posts that you are more bothered about winning than being entertained, but I would suggest that you are one of a dwindling band.

I have heard the one about ( I was one of the 3 hundred who used to go and stand on the terrace in the bad old days ) so many time , that if everyone who claimed to be one of them was right , there would have been 5.000 there instead of 3 hundred. Fair play to them they must have been truly Die hard fans. I suspect if you are old enough you were one or them.

I was very lucky when I was a kid, My granddad was a fanatical RL fan and he used to take me all over , every ground that was in being in those days, I watched Huddersfield a fair few times and I was at Odsal when they beat Wakefield to become champions,
They deserved to win that day, and actually I saw them beat Wigan in the playoffs, It was one of the worst games I have ever seen, It was unlimited tackles then and could be a really dour affair.

The reason I mention this is because I think it was probably around that time that everything started to go down hill for Huddersfield, ( I never saw the celebrated side of the 50's, I wish I had. ) They became known as a one out football side, and they were compaired to Wakey, Wigan, Leeds, Saints Cas, etc a very poor side to watch, and the Fans voted with their feet.

There was little competition compared to today, and yet despite winning the championship crowds just withered away, or that's how it seems anyway, Today there's lots of competition, People want to be entertained.

Didn't we get up to approaching 8.000 fans when N Brown was here, Before he started to Wobble, We had a roll on, We are still doing at least as well in league position, where have the crowds gone, Could it possible be they don't like what they are being served.

Had I been a casual fan, I would have thought, Not paying to watch that ( despite them winning ) last week. I would have been looking for some classy football and a lot of try's against a struggling side, What we actually got has been well covered, and only the really committed fans are prepared to pay for it.
No matter what the club had done to promote that game, no matter how many free tickets they had given to the kids, No matter how much Face painting and all the rest, 3/4s of that crowd would have come away telling themselves, We secured 4th place that 's what matters, Its the win that counts. The other 1/4 would be leaving thinking what a load of S**** that was, And a lot of that quarter wont be back for a while, some not all season.

For me we need to develop a bit of style about our game, Lets build a rep for playing good open football, just like Cas did in the 60s, and yes it might not win us anything like it didn't win a lot for Cas, but we don't win anything anyway. It's a real shame things went sour with N Brown, First two years I thought we were really getting somewhere.

i started watching in 1987,JJ, so no i wasn't one of the 303ers but i know of some who were there.
but you have some good point also, in 2008 we averaged 7,820 which was our highest average since about 1973 i read somewhere, we have seen increases in only 2 seasons after this, but yet, strangely the figure for 2013 when we won the LLS was the lowest since 2007! maybe people don't want success after all?

but it is a worry and to me there are various factors rather than just one

cost
day and time of the game
people just generally fed up with the game
other commitments, family, work etc
and as you said, entertainment, value for money
most of these factors are out of the clubs hands, except maybe cost and some would say entertainment/value for money, so if i was the CEO i would want to try and find out why people aren't coming, and what, if anything, the club could do to entice people to come back or indeed to start coming.

like i said there is a big retail park over the road, another one not too far away,there's a cinema complex, a pub, restaurant , leisure centre etc next door to the stadium which all seem to be busy with people on a matchday, have the club ever sought to make contact with these people and find out if there's an interest in the giants amongst them?
i realise they are all competitors for consumer's time and money, but could we not work with them? offer discounts with the cinema, pizza hut etc?

I think a lot of those things may reap some reward if explored Meast, but if I am honest I don't see any one of them making a huge change to our crowds, that's not to say they can't be explored.
TBC made a point about people wanting to watch winners, and he / she mentioned Bradford as a example, It's indisputable that Bradford really grasped the concept of Summer Rugby, They are one of the most successful sides ever in Super league.

Yes they are paying for it now because they were spending money they didn't have, But the crowds of 20,000 + plus didn't give a fig for that at the time, and the main thing was ,they were winning things regularly, and they were good to watch, some of the Derby games with Leeds were as good as S league has ever got, and I've heard it said on here , there were more Bulls fans in Huddersfield than Giants.

So I say lets make an attempt to get crowds in by putting on some style, What we are doing now isn't working, What's to lose, We had made a start a few years ago, now we are right back where we were, One very good game where they play really well and compete with the best followed by weeks of poor stuff, It needs a whole different approach to our game, and it maybe that it's not possible, but is it not worth a try.

Am I going mad? I seem to remember folk moaning about the style of rugby NB had the giants playing.......

Well I didn't post on here in those days, so I didn't moan about N Brown, Yes it all went belly up for some reason ( I don't know what ) But till it did we looked a lot better than we had before or since, we were I thought playing some good Football, and Didn't we get Coach and club of the year along with MOS.

N Brown was very good at improving individual Players, He brought some of our players to a new level.
So what do you think jools are you happy with things ?, What does anyone think ? Are they happy to just keep saying " look where we were 25 years ago " We would be a lot better thinking about where we are likely to be 25 years on, If something doesn't change.

It might be that just nothing can be done, In which case enjoy what there is while It's still here.

I think with the players we have we are where we are. Whilst we have to fend off Wigan, Leeds, saints and to some extent wire by paying more than they would for the same player in order to get them to come to us -or keep players, we will always have an overall poorer squad. We have been lucky that we haven't had major injury issues or the gulf would be more obvious.
Remember how lethargic and frankly knackered our players looked under NB. How lacking in energy our play was- Remember the mid season slump every year due to them being flogged in training.....
Remember how we complained at how no one knew where they were playing each week, and how it showed, as "tinkerman" did his tinkering- Short memories.
Folk are moaning they don't play exciting free flowing rugby- well look what happens when they try and can't catch a ball between them! Perhaps they are playing to their strengths rather than their weaknesses...

Jools, l agree with just about all of that, but l think the main problem at the Giants is that too many people are in "the comfort zone",
Starting near the top , we have a General Manager that is also a director,= job for life?
Rumours, said GM is very pally with some players = contract well past your sell by date.
Mason and Kopczak fiascos = someone didn,t do their job properly, well never mind eh!.
Luke (lve got a bad back)O,Donnell, paid in full, left early, never missed a game for the Roosters?
the same could probably be said regarding coaches, the NB issue was a farce, the axe should have swung the moment he first opened his mouth.
Baloo has already had his contract extended, personelly l,m ok with him at the moment, but if he doesn,t deliver, will the axe swing?, will he jump ship if a better offer comes along, or will the "comfort zone" kick in.
Marketing and Publicity, most fans favourite gripe, ie what marketing and Publicity, again "comfort zone".
Other directors, Who are they ? what do they bring to the club ? or are they a little club sitting in "the comfort zone"
l have watched this club most of my life, and if someone 20, or even 10 years ago had offered me what we have today, l would have happily axcepted, but we get greedy, there is no doubt we have problems to overcome, whether they be players, coaches, backroom staff, management, or above those, the buck stops with Ken Davy.
Ken Davy is a saint, without him we would no doubt be a championship side or worse, Ken Davy is obviously a very good bussiness man, in the financial sector, but a RL club, is a totally different world, l would be more confident, lf l new Ken had an axe, and new how to chop up a "comfort zone", maybe he should just buy one and hang it above his office door.

Jools, spot on regarding playing style, i've had this debate with people many times and even on this thread,when people say that we don't play exciting stuff, my argument is that maybe we play the way we do because that style suits our strengths, and it's hard for the opposition to defend against, or maybe we play that way in order to negate the opposition in order to put our strengths to the fore.

you can't just expect every RL team to play the same way and just throw the ball around at will, yes it might be exciting but does it win games?

as for the comfort zone thing and sacking people, then i don't get that, as a club we are in a good place,as far as most of us know we are OK financially and the club is run in a fairly good way, we are in a good position in the league with a chance of a shot at the grand final in 7 weeks!
yes the marketing probably leaves a lot to be desired, but then again, we aren't a rich club, so maybe the budget for marketing was spent on players instead in the hope that a successful team will market itself?
at last night's HGSA meeting,Blake Solly, complimented us on being a well run club who have bred a very good "culture" from the top down, which in turn has led us to being where we are, do we want to throw that away for a quick fix and sack people left,right and centre?

Meast, no one is advocating sackings left right and , l am asking questions, things have gone wrong in the past, Questions are being asked about the running of the club today. The NB, Mason, and Kopczak sissues, l my opinion were very badly handled, Brown should have been sacked (Saints fans at that time said McManus would not have stood for that)and as far as the "comfort zone" l think l outlined my views on that quite clearly, but if everyone thinks all is honky dory down there, who am l to argue.

We are a well run club and shouldn't forget that.

Lots of effort and money has gone into the scholarships and academies that should start to bear some fruit in the next year or so.
If you look at the club now as to just 5 year ago we have made giant strides (no pun intended) in this area.

You mentioned earlier that the year we won the LLS the average attendance was the lowest since 2007 and that 'maybe people don't want success after all'.

Well I believe they are desperate for success but that the definition of success is getting to the GF as a minimum.

Can you imagine the interest that would be generated if the Giants appeared in (never mind won) the showcase final in front of 75,000 people?

If we can do that and more importantly do it on a regular basis that must be our best chance of growing attendance figures.

What we don't want is a repeat of the miserable effort in the play-offs of last year (and the year before that?).

That more than anything will put us further back in the quest to raise crowds.

The pressure is on and it will be very interesting how we handle it from now to the season's end.

It all a starts tomorrow......

Some good posts and something to agree with in every one. I must be expecting too much I think. But I would ask one question of people who say they are very happy with where we are.

Would you rather see a game like the Leeds v Saints cup match, where Leeds especially, played some great football to watch, Fast, flowing at times, off loading, desperate defence at times, Or the effort served up by Wakey and the Giants, Endless dropped balls, knock-on's, Penalties and the rest, Both Leeds and the Giants got the win, Leeds playing for a place at Wembley against another very good side, The Giants against bottom of the league , who have won Twice , I know which I would rather watch.

some very good points on all aspects, which is how a forum thread should be.
however i do have to disagree slightly TBC, we have appeared in showcase events, 2 challenge cup finals, and we all said then that it would raise the profile of the club above what it's ever been, added to the fact that we had a long running partnership with the university, which i don't think we profited from enough, how many graduates left the uni as giants fans? suppose we'll never know but i don't think we did enough to get students and employees of the uni interested, maybe others will shed light.

it's all very well dismissing the LLS as not very important, but to our club and everything it's been through it was, in my eyes, a massive thing and something we should be proud of, as a club and as a fanbase, did we push that enough? again, hard to tell but from the outside looking in i don't think we did.

obviously our continuing failure in the play offs aren't helping, and maybe, just maybe, a GF will be the kick start the cup finals, and the LLS weren't