We never will be able to while we are spending Cap on players who are clearly not good enough.

And how do you propose we get these people coming to games and contributing, If you haven't noticed crowds are diminishing.

That in it's self should tell you we need a fresh approach, Personally I don't think we will get it while we have the present people running the club. Do you think the clubs who we are striving to catch up with would put up with this end of season disappointment year on year, Not a chance, That's why they are where they are, and we are amongst the rest.

Matt01 is right, on our better shows this season we are not that far away but we can only do it for an odd game here and there, That's cause we don't have that quality required to do it week in week out, It's not just about Physical ability It's mental attitude as well, demonstrated perfectly by Ryan Hall, with thirty seconds to go he was still trying to win the game, we had already settled for the draw.

The whole strategy seems to be that if we get a big enough name ,and we keep grinding on, something will miraculously change and one year it will be our turn, so year on year we keep getting these big names and expect them to transform us into winners, and year on year the crowd gets a little less, Maybe we would actually be happier in the second 12

The backroom staff at the club do an outstanding job - especially considereing how many there are.

Leeds have a backroom staff of 150 [according to Garry Hetherington. We have perhaps a tenth of that figure.

Agree with Ivor, James Brammer, for instance has a marketing team of just 2 now whereas before it was 8..these kind of cuts had to come due to the crowds not coming and the need to save money.

If any of you people are unhappy then please feel free to join the HGSA and give us (and the club) any ideas you may have for improving things, the club do meet with us and listen to us so it could be your chance to get your thoughts and ideas through to them ! - that was a genuine offer by the way not a condescending dig at anyone. We are all frustrated that we have lost out again, the lack of crowds, the lack of world class players - we have to be patient and let the club build in its own time ...yes it may take a while but as supporters isn't it always worth the wait after seeing failure ?.

It's pretty straightforward IMO. They have to grasp the nettle and spend some more money. Saying it can't be afforded is essentially admitting defeat. Otherwise the current trend with respect to crowd numbers isn't got to be reversed. These people may do a great job "all things considered" but it's not getting the desired end result. They should really smash it and if that doesn't work they know the people of Huddersfield don't really want a SL team. A half d effort for another 10 years is probably more expensive than 3 years of all out aggressive, strategic marketing. IMO obviously.

All this

Agree, we do need to speculate to accumulate. I've even suggested and offered many time to let the fans do the marketing if the club cannot afford it...i'm sure plenty of us would be willing to deliver leaflets, stick posters up, hand out flyers in town etc.

as i've said repeatedly, we are punching above our weight, we simply cannot match Leeds, Wigan, saints, Warrington, Hull, catalans for finances, crowds, marketing, but yet we are consistently challenging at the top unlike,say hull, who seem to struggle.

we can only go so far on our limited finances, we lose money as a club every year, so we obviously aren't able to bring in a whole raft of backroom staff, as IVOR says, Leeds have over 150 members of their backroom staff, we have less than 40 IIRC.

we are all frustrated at the perceived lack of ambition, but it's not ambition that is holding us back, or the people running the club, it's the lack of finances.

players are given contracts who aren't good enough, well they are good enough according to the people who run the club otherwise they wouldn't sign players, we can't just "get rid" of players as people suggest, we can't just "get people in".

i agree that we are probably 3/4 very good players short of being a very good team that is able to go that next step, but if we cant afford those players then what? why do Wakefield struggle every year? why have Bradford gone downhill?? because they have no money to get better players in!

It's quite predictable the way that if you criticize the Giants, you immediately get told what Leeds or Wigan etc have got, what they have got has nothing to do with the Giants, and it inevitably leads on to the " we are punching above our weight"

They certainly do Ivor, Lets look at some of their triumphs, The ludicrous way in which Mason was got rid of, We all know how that ended up including the judge who found in favour of Mason, What was the final cost ? half a million was it, That would have bought a decent Halfback.

The shifty behind the scenes dealing with Kopczak, Fined again, pay up to Bradford.

The getting rid of Hodgson, the best player at Huddersfield for half a century, not worth 2years at the Giants , let Warrington have him for 3 years, Great move.

The Double shuffle with drew, another classy player who wasn't worth 2 years, but eventually became so 2 years later. Ditto Kyle wood, let him go not needed, get him back essential part of our squad.

Now we have L Patrick coming back from loan, Fair enough, the club are saying he will be an improved player, are we now saying then that Wigan and Wakefield improve the players they get from us, they get better coaching and improve their game, Mmm.

Now the latest fine by the RFL for breaching the rules on player welfare.

And while all this doing a good job is going on , the crowds continue to fall.

I think I see where you are coming from Ivor, They probably deserve a pay rise.

Can some mods do some modding and please do something about this thread - which has several pages NOT about Kyle wood.

I'm not saying that this debate shouldn't continue- but perhaps under a different title thread???

Jools - it was one of the mods that caused the thread drift !

don't buy into lack of finances why buy Lockwood park . paying masson 100k how many more players are being over payed, its about time the club published the books like leeds then we can see who much they are loosing where the money is going and who much they get from sponsors ect then we will all know if we are punching above are weight or badly spending our cap

Your support of the club does you credit Meast, but what you are basically saying is we cannot expect to go any further forward than we are, We can desperately hope too, but to all intents and purposes this is as good as it gets.

You are saying we are in this Chicken and Egg situation, I agree with you. We can't afford the right Key players because we don't get the crowds to fund them, We don't get the crowds because we don't play an attractive enough style of rugby to draw the crowds in, So basically we carry on in the same mode till the diminishing crowds make the club no longer sustainable and we fold.

I agree with what the Barron said, It's time to bite the bullet. I know It's easy to spend some one else's money, but if Mr Davy is planning to continue to invest at his present rate, for say the next 10 years"for example" why not bang it in in the next 2/ 3 years , get some class players and get amongst the so called big boys.

If it works we get to win things maybe, at the very least we become truly one of the top sides, If we are playing classy Football there is every chance we will win things and the crowds will come and watch, for all this to work we have to have the right people, and we have to market any success we have.

If it all goes belly up, it wont have cost Mr Davy any more, he can walk away knowing he has done everything he can to make the Giants a success. ( in truth he could walk away now with his head held high )

Comparing us to Wakey or Bradford meast is quite pointless. Neither of those clubs have had the incredible good fortune that we have. If we are punching above our weight what have Wakey been doing, they have survived in Super league playing everyone else's cast off players, and had any half decent players they have brought on taken by other clubs , including us, ( to the great glee of many Giants fans )

Bradford's record speaks for It's self, No matter what they are now , they were the pace setters in Summer rugby, they have been to heights we can only dream about, A lot of Giants fans hate them with a vengeance, but It's only because they were a great side and a lot of Huddersfield fans preferred to watch them than the Giants. ( I must say this hatred of other clubs and their fans is not peculiar to Giants Fans ) they are no worse than any others.

All the other clubs you mention have no bearing on our dilemma, They have their own problems to solve we have ours, I don't care if Leeds or Wigan have 500 backroom staff it does us no good, I'm more concerned with the job ours are doing.

Like you I have watched the Giants for a long time, I just have the feeling that ( just like that game against Leeds ) now is our chance to move up , We have some good players, we have one or two very good players, We need the right players to take us on, and we have to do whatever it takes to get them, If we can't then so be it , we shall remain a nearly team at best , and a Gone club at worst.

Throwing money at buying players doesn't work- Leeds tried it, Salford tried it and to some extent so did we goulding, schofield, etc....
We are now trying to 'build' a club rather than buy one- our downfall is the apathy of the Huddersfield public. The answer to that we haven't been able to crack- even making tickets free doesn't bring them flocking !!!

..... Add to that.....Leeds are charging their fans £5 to attend their homecoming party..... Imagine...

This is the most boring thread I've ever read. Folk giving the speculate to acumalate .

Speculate what?

We have no money!!!

It's all Kens and as far as I'm concerned he's spent more than enough. Some folk need to get a grip!

We never bought Lockwood Park - that is union territory.

If people ever other to read the club's version of the Mason affair tey will agree with the club.

If Leeds have more than ten times our marketing department it doesn't matter we should still be able to market as good as Leeds???

To those who want to let Me D spend some more of his money, why don't you buy two season tickets?

Bradford are where they are now because they spent money they didn't have.

Some people say that we should not compare ourselves to other clubs yet in the same breath they compare us to other clubs!

Instead of slagging off the club, why don't to - to whomever the cap fit - get on board with organisations which are working with the club to move the Giants forward?

we can't throw money at anything because we don't have any money!

as much as i want to see us start getting into finals and winning silverware, i am also realistic to realise that we cant do it without the finances necessary, and we can't rely on Ken and the Davy family forever, we have to be self sustainable, which we aren't at the moment,nowhere near, yes it's frustrating but as supporters, we need to be trying to help the club, not bitching because we have gone 50+ years without a major trophy,
its not accepting failure or not having ambition, it's been realistic and realising that we can't just throw money at things to make things better, Look at Salford!

we have built up the club, mainly thanks to Mr. Davy and a lot of hard work and patience, to throw all that away in order to "give it a go" and throw money we don't have at trying to win a pot is suicidal and would ultimately lead to the club's demise, do we really want that? do we want to put the whole club in peril for the sake of a crack at winning the big trophies?

if it meant having a club and a team constantly involved in the top end without winning a trophy or gamble the club's future, i know what i would choose.

sorry if that makes me an apologist etc but that's the harsh truth.

and i agree with Jools, this thread has drifted way off topic, maybe a mod could bring all this stuff into a new topic?

Disgusting Jools - it was only £2 at one of our end of season do's. !

Mind you we hadn't won owt

I highly doubt that I would disagree with the law of the land.

Actually, I was implying that the club should invest in their marketing department so they are able to market better.


Rather than it being the customer's responsibility to buy whatever they are offered, it is the responsibility of the supplier to offer what they want.


Again, it is the responsibility of the club to advance itself rather than yours, mine or anyone else as followers of that club.

We need to prevent emotional attachment from influencing our thought processes when it comes to expanding our customer base or making that team change that results in winning a Grand Final. It's business.

If he wants the club to become self sustaining then I think that speculation will be cheaper in the long run. Have a real serious crack at the marketing (the team is not a million miles away). If it doesn't work in 3-5 years, walk away and leave the Huddersfield public with the team they deserve.

It's easy for Leeds to market their club, they are marketing success, It's not so easy to market an annual collapse I agree.

Bradford may have been spending money they didn't have, We are spending someone else's. The big difference is that for 10 years they were on a roller coaster of a ride, that no one can take off them, while we have been trundling along on a pair of skates by comparison, and I'd place even money, even now, they will win the Grand final again before we do.

Where all this throwing money at players has come from I don't know, All I have advocated is a couple of class players in key positions rather than 3/4 who can't take us forward. Nobody has asked for a Salford fiasco, which clearly has been a disaster, or a Wigan pre Super league , which was just as clearly Fantastic.

Oh and for the record Ivor, I don't buy Season tickets because I can't afford too, I have commitments to other people who are far more important and needy than the Giants, If that disqualifies me from having an opinion, ( which you consider slagging the club off ) or from posting it on here , you let me know.

All true, apart from the Mason bit - the club were found to be in the wrong in a Court of Law. As much as we would all like to believe the club were in the right it has been proven they were not.

If the club are clinging onto the belief the were in the right that is worrying as a failure to recognise or acknowledge when you have made an error of judgement you cannot correct it or prevent a repeat.

Ivor i am not going to get into a discussion about the Mason affair.

The court made its decision

BUT


Some absolute idiot at the Giants thought that Mason was worth £100,000 a year salary now that is criminal

If I am not mistaken the decision to buy a player is taken by the committee not by one person.

Who negotiates the salary? The committee?