I agree with a lot of that Meast and it's a realistic view. Some people get called apologists some get called whingers and they both have a case up to a point.

The problem I have Particularly with some posters on here is, Because they are absolute fans who are going to support the team/ club whatever they do, they think everybody else should be the same, as though it's our duty to go down and pay our money so they can work towards a better team.
Unfortunately that's the wrong way round , it's more like the clubs duty to attract buyers just like any other business,
The Giants just can't do that, and in this case it's not just an opinion is it ? Despite free tickets, much pleading and cajoling, the people of Huddersfield just don't go , so all the evidence backs up my argument, otherwise why aren't we getting the magic 10.000, The population could stand that easily.
The only solution that I can think of is they are just not happy about what they see on the field, and there's only one outfit that can change that. The onus is on them to provide what the people want and are prepared to spend their money on, not the other way round.

We all have our ideas about how that should be achieved, The most popular one on here is that People should go and watch them so they can afford better players, You know what I think or that.
I take your point about we must be doing something right, we are holding our own with the big boys,
This is the old ,we are punching above our weight bit, and while that may well be true It's completely useless if you are going to keep taking a knockout punch.

I have conversations with mates and so on. I say to them Giant's are not doing bad just now ( as they did in the 7 games ) what I get back is stuff like" Yeah wait till it comes to the crunch games I'll watch em on Telly mate " They expect them to lose, because they know the other top teams are capable of stepping up their game when it matters.

The only way I know how to do that is with quality players and a class coach, If we can't afford them and we have to settle for what we have then so be it, we have to try to keep punching above our weight and hope that one day we might not take that big punch, the downside is that we have to accept that the crowds are always, going to be what they are, and we are more than likely always going to be also rans. The situation will only get worse as well because the salary cap is only going to go one way in the future

I am a comer in to Huddersfield Meast and my impression of the club was " It's just a matter of time before they go under " Then Mr Davy came along and gave the club a new future, My impression now is that his money is being squandered, and the club comes over as very very amateurish, but that's up to him, he's put the people where they are, And to be fair they have made some howlers, I am amazed some of them are still where they are, but His business.

I make no excuses for my opinion on Paul Anderson, " I can here the howls and screaming now " I don't think he is good enough, He doesn't seem to be able to get the best out of players like some coaches can, He has made us into a good defensive side by and large and credit to him for that, once again not what the floating supporter wants to see.

I won't be going to Leeds after that shambles last week, I make no apologies people can think what they think and say what they want, " I don't easily take offence " there will be a lot more thinking like me.
All this is just my opinion Meast, feel free to shoot it down, that's what a forum's for.

PS, I hope they go really well at Leeds, They usually do better against the better sides, if you can call Leeds that at the moment.

There are others, for starters theres choice, I like RL more than anything, I don't assume other people do so maybe less inclined to attend on a regular basis, regardless of success. Then theres competition for your leisure pound, you mentioned the 50s earlier, theres a lot more to do in your spare time now than there was then. Also Sky, before live TV crowds were be bigger.

I personally think the momentum was lost when we had the loosing streak with Brown in charge, then out out of the cup semis against stains. The rot was in then, and left a little too long as we had been building for some time. And we've been either unlucky with overseas signings (injury prone) with the exception of a couple, you mentioned the class of De Vere but Costin and Russell were far better servants for us.

And while l'd say Davy has been massive for us in the SL era, I'd say the 80s (Baracudas anyone?) were far worse and we were a lot closer to going to the wall until the likes of Shuttleworth came along. But I understand not everyone experienced that, but it give those that did a sense of perspective now.

Having said all that there has been a lot put into the youth where normally it hasn't, thats not going to come to fruition over night but we are starting to see the signs. Its just they are not far enough on in experience yet to fill in when things like the injury fest that is happening now.

Everybody is entitled to their views and opinions, of course, i have my own and i don't expect everyone to agree with them.

but it seems to me, judging by the debates on here is that the fanbase is split down the middle, those, like myself who are long standing fans, who never even dreamed we would even compete with the top clubs, let alone regularly beat them, who realise that we are probably at the top of where we could realistically get to and without further investment into the club then we are either going to stagnate or fall back down.

then there are people who basically just want to support a winning team and kick off when things don't go well, without appreciating or understanding that we can't just go and buy players, we have tried as a club to increase crowds but to no avail, it's not because people don't think we will win anything or that they think PA is a crap coach, it's because there just isn't the interest there, there never really has been, apart from golden era's in the 50's & 60's but that was reflected in every sport of the time.

whether people like it or not, we are a small club, punching above our weight, competing with 6/7 other clubs with budgets and staff 3 time greater than what ours is, that should be something every fan should be proud of, but it seems that some fans want to use that as a stick to beat us with.

that way i see it, we are all "fans" of this club, some of us are "supporters" but most of us want the club to do well, although there does seem a minority that can't wait until we are dead and buried so they can say "told you so".
if people want to pay their money and support the team and hopefully do their bit, however small to try and increase our revenues and therefore our ability to carry on competing at the top level, that is up to them, but if people don't then they can't really moan about their perceived lack of success or ambition.

Point taken about both Costin and particularly Russell, I also understand your point about where the club is now compared to where they have been, and how you will feel reasonably happy. But that would surely make you see my point as well. While you were experiencing all the years of Bad times and watching rubbish, I grew up watching very good sides , Hardesty, Fox, Millward, Lewis jones, endless players with true class. Yes different times, but once you have dined on Steak it doesn't come easy eating Turnips, That's why I can understand the fans who were lucky enough to be going to Fartown in the fifties, all fell away in the 60's.
Possibly the answer will be in the Youth if they can carry it through, That's the source of success in OS, and God knows we have some catching up to do there.

I'm bright enough to see that that post is aimed at me Daz, and that's fair enough mate It's your view. What I find amusing is that anybody who is prepared to give an opinion and criticize the club, Is throwing a Paddy and moaning whining and whinging, Despite the fact you don't know me ,nor how much I have put into the clubs coffers.
And as ever It's priciesly people like me who choose not to go when they don't want, whose fault it all is that the club can't take the next step forward, It's nothing to do with the Sh**e administration who have squandered funds Half a million at a time in some cases, who don't have the nouse to start looking for replacement players till ours are practically on walking sticks, Still as you say true fans don't worry about things like that, they get behind the club .

It's aimed at anyone who does/say/act like the type i've mentioned.....not at anyone personally.

I would love to see us do what we did in the 50's but i'm also realistic enough to understand that without more money the club cannot move forward as ALL of us want.

I don't suppose It's ever occurred to you that we might just need someone who knows how to shop better, or can spot talent.

Anyway I sense I have outstayed my welcome, I wish you well mate.

Oh i totally agree, i've said myself many times the same thing ..till it happens though we have to get on with what we have !

?

Spotting talent- that's an interesting one. Are people here aware that our "talent scouts" are volunteers- they don't get paid.......

This great club has made amazing strides these past few years. We have appeared in two cup finals and won the the league trophy, furthermore for five years or more we have consistantly been in the top 3 or 4 in the league ! Our defence is regularly the toughest in the competition, we have had 5 or more players called for international duty and represented in the the superleague dream team, last season we had the top try scorer as well. At least two thirds of superleague teams would love to be in our shoes!! This has been achieved without putting our club on the verge of bankruptcy, suggesting that we are professional both on and off the field of play. Some of the habitual moaners on this forum suggest our training and managerial staff are not up to the task - just look at our achievements and be proud of them and of the team. The one area we are lacking is numbers on the terrace. With a more optimistic attitude we can and will continue to build and improve, just consider some of the young talent we have introduced. It is easy to critisize but any fair minded supporter will see a well run club on the up, we have many injuries (unprecedented) at the moment but will be fighting for honours at the end of the season, so my message is enjoy your rugby league with the Giants-- the cup is half full!

How patronising you are.

There is a third way.



The loyal spporters can accept that there are things going wrong at the club and try to influence things so they change.

Sitting back and doing nothing will take the club to oblivion but in reality that is probably what you want spo that you can sit with 200 people and be loyal together.

The loyal supporters constantly say it is about money . If it was it would be easy to accept because that is something we cannot change.

But to me it is about mismanagement.

Every time i raise this you ignore it and just reduce it to loyal supporters or whingers.

Answer me three questions.

All of which cost this club huge amounts of money.
None of which were caused by a lack of fans but money through the turnstyles

1/ Who thought it was a good idea to pay Mason £100K per season ?

2 Who was responsible for the incompetent sacking of Mason which cost the club nigh on £500K

3/ Why did we keep Robbo when it was clear last season he should retire.



A;l of these things have had knock on effects.

All were to do with mismanagement. Not whingeing or due to a lack of money.

Whislt you sit back this goes on continually and will continue to spoil the legacy that Ken's millions could have given us.

You obviously don't know me if you think i 'sit back and do nothing' !!!

And i want this club to be successful as much as anyone, god knows i've waited long enough for some and no i don't want to go back to 200 people, i get frustrated at our lack of crowds and lack of trophies too.

I've also said many times in the past that i think a change in management of the club maybe a good thing and mistakes have been made. People who know me will know how passionate i am about this club and my opinions on things !!.

I dont doubt your passion and commitment but stop joining in with the chorus of putting everyone into camps of loyal supporters and whingers as if it is all that simplistic.

Ever thought that some of the whingers are loyal supporters

I wasn't categorising i was saying that as fans/supporters whatever we are we can either support the club by going to the games, cheering the players on, and accepting that for now this is where we are or we can moan and whine that things aren't as good as we want them to be !!

I choose to support, some people don't regardless of how much of a fan they are, that's not an opinion its a fact backed up by the lack of crowds at home, the lack of people going to away games, people stating they're not going/won't go etc.....

So what is your point here, Are you suggesting that because they don't get paid they are not up to the job, but we are lucky to have them because they are free.

It just re-enforces the view that a club with a multi- million turnover operates another part of it's operations on an Amateur basis.

jo jumbuck read my post, (in full) If you are a supporter then you have a club that isnt perfect, nevertheless it is a club can be proud of.

I'm pretty sure you're post and those of the same ilk are the reason for these debates.

Your opinion is completely valid, as are those of jumbuck, Durham and Daz.

While it's brilliant seeing how far the club's has come, it is something that many of us are fed up of hearing. I think the problem is that we build ourselves up, and probably over achieve given the finances, roster and support. But at the end of the seasons it's the same failings, despite the media hype and saying how we have learned and we will be better and won't repeat our mistakes.

I think the frustration of some comes from wanting us to take the next step, and believing that we are capable. But being let down by fundamental problems and mismanagement.

It's great how far we have come as a club, but it appears that it's a matter of time where we can no longer over achieve and other teams around us fulfil their potential, and this is frustrating, because it would feel like an opportunity squandered to really kick on.

There appears to be a split between the fans who are happy to enjoy the ride while it lasts, and those who believe we can achieve something with smarter management and persistence. To me, it's a waste of Daveys time and money to accept the former.

I did read your post and it amounted to the same stuff, Despite all you list about our triumphs, Weren't our gates around 8.000 3/4 seasons ago, That's your idea of going forward. Yeah Right.

Very well put mate, especially the last sentence. Some people need to get some Ambition.

WHAT i am trying to illustrate is we are a succesful club and have been for the last 5 years or so. As for our gates that was the main disappointment which I did point out. ". Mismanagement is illustrated at clubs such as Bradford and Wakefield and others. Once again "be proud of your club, we are making progress despite small crowds and some pessimistic opinions expressed on this forum.

Clubs like Bradford and Wakefield have not had a multi millionaire backing them, I notice you were Very quick to site Bradfords problems, But were Carefull not to mention Their superb record since S league started, and now they are relegated they still get more fans than we do. Can't you grasp something needs to change, You must be blinded by your devotion.

So you want me to mention Bradfords past glories but critisize me for mentioning the Giants succesful recent history (albeit not as good as Bradford yet)> As we are making steady progress under the stewardship of Ken why should he change? Steady sustainable growth is on the menu for the Giants and thankfully calm hands are on the tiller rather than the eccentric "change direction" every time things dont go how I think they should brigade" I am not blinded by devotion but am pragmatic and happy we have succesful club, properly financed now and for the future.

OK mate lets hope your right.