I wouldn't didn't rate him at wigan and i dont now

Mabye maguire would have made him better but not my cup of tea one bit if you find the thread about him on our board my comment was along the lines of 'is mm and il drunk or on drugs'

On the plus side crabtree had a cracker like i said griffin went ok robinson is no 7 he did well at 9 but his kicking game is ****

Joel was 100x better than brown today, can joel play alot better than that yes westwood was better today but imo joel is a better player

Brown your waaaay of let him get a tan and bring the water on he will do a better job

Robinson i agree and will add he needs to be in the middle of the pitch in defence he got caught a few times and they went straight at him

Griffin yeah he played ok did his job

Earl played very well just showed what he can do with decent players around him

Brown just looked average. Sam did some great things but some poor as well.

As has been said robbo was quality at 9, poor at 7.

Thought griffin was also average and didn't stake enough of a claim for me, although crabtree played a lot better than I expected.

Think only having 2 subs available for te entire 2nd half took it out of us but we just lacked any direction after sam went off.

Brown offered nothing to the game at all. Sam Tomkins made a huge difference but he needs to control his passing better and also communicate to his team mates something of what he is going to do: he isn't playing for Wigan now so they won't be expecting his wild runs, much as they are great to see. I hope he isn't out against the Kiwis or we are truly screwed. McBanana missed a trick in not bringing Brough this time even if he isn't the easiest individual to manage. We needed someone with real halfback skill out there given the absences through injury. Without Tomkins, we just don't have it at halfback.

Crabtree had a good game and I liked his nifty offload between the legs! Westwood also had a good game and hopefully he ran off the bang he got from the late tackle which should have been penalised.

We were too soft around the ruck defensively; in fact too soft defensively full stop, except for that excellent chase for the drop goal, which was heartening to see.

But at international level that is exactly what players have to cope with. If you want your players in the international team you have to take the heat. Heck, us Saints fans took it for long enough! Sam Tomkins had exactly the same issues to deal with as Brown but Tomkins, like a few others, looked just as good out there as they do for their clubs. If Brown cannot replicate that then he shouldn't be on the field. I don't know how well Brown plays at club level but he needs to seriously step up and get creative if we are going to stand any kind of chance next weekend should Tomkins be missing from action.

Good first half, we had no ball or shape in the 2nd half. Some off the pivots looked like they hadnt played together, which they havent. They need time. They played against mainly quality first teamers from the NRL, dont forget that. I agree, Robbo not an international 7, all Giants fans will tell you he cant kick long. Earl was very good, and griff good. Browny was ok, he is a 6 at least. S Tompkins is quality but not an easy half back partner,(full back for Wigan remember), he doesnt often link well for others but is a special player!

The obsession of you Joe Tomkins wet dreamers know no bounds.

Thought Brown was average but can do better.

Sam T is clearly weak passing left to right, the pass is slow and lacks accuracy. His long kicking game is inconsistent. He should not be the No1 kicker in any team. However... he is an outstanding fullback and will be the best English fb of the summer era. The fb position maximises the use of his talent. I spoke to Nathan brown a few weeks ago and he said Maguire was spot on playing him at fb. Steve Mac has sadly missed this. Nathan brown also recognised that Robbo and K Brown are particularly poor in long game kicking so brought in Brough. Brough's kicking game today + Tomkins at fb would have made us a stronger side (Widdop could play wing / centre or at 6)

Oh, I agree with that. But without other halfback options, if Tomkins is fit then he's our no.7. We have no option on that one IMO.

I still have no idea why Brough has never been chosen for an international.

www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2010&hp1=2163&hs2=2010&hp2=470&stat=tries&season=2010

It was a nice hit out, just what was needed.

Thought Brown was ok. He can (and will) play better. Unlike Mcguire he creates not just follows up.

Griffin was solid (but won't get in the test team) and Robbo and Crabtree played well for me.

A few wonder tries in the second half got NZ back in the game.

Joel Tomkins didn't have the best game but isn't yet in the same class as Burgess and Ellis any way. Would be ok from the Bench as long as he keeps the pens count down.

Was generally impressed with Atkins and Hall.

Get a grip you lot we'll all be smiling after a great win next week.

This thread is about England RL. Sadly you and a couple of other Wigan supporters have fixated on Joel Tomkins. It would be better if you found other places to indulge your infatuation. Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the sort of crush that you are experiencing for Joel is common among teenage girls. I will bet you and all the other wigan teenage girls on here love to talk about Joel's......'metres' 'tackle count' and 'hit ups'. Hmmmm statistics. Sublimation is a wonderful thing!

This thread is England RL. You might be better off having a discusion with the school nurse on Monday. HTH

What they want Broughy as well, crikey we've already got 6 in the team and they want another Giant, WK will be sticking pins in his effigy of Banana man, why no mre piemen

Mate you the one who keeps talking about him in a context non-England. We're talking about him in relation to the England team and you keep changing that into your sexual fantasties!


Joel had an average game, did no better and no worse than most of the other forwards in the 2nd half. No-one gave them the ball to do anything with!

Thought Westwood had a good game though.

Brown was better in the first half than the second. He was not alone.

But if he had signed for you as your coach wanted you would, which is my entire point.

I rate him, don't really have an aversion to him playing for England as he's the best available option at the minute. Definately have him back at Wigan though.

So we are all agreed that Griffin, Eorl and Robbo had a great game. Brown has room to improve but he'll be featuring again.

With Morley injured I think we'll be starting with Graham and Griffin now with Eorl and Fielden spelling them.

I thought Westwood played very well too - coming on after 5 minutes and having to defend as a prop yet still had the energy to gain metres forward.

Morley, if he is out, is a loss. But a set of props like Griff, Graham, Eorl and Fielden is still formidable. People underestimate Griff and his work ethic and honesty. Honesty is a word that is almost a dis-service to a player but he does what he has to do; what he is asked to do. This is the same for Brown. He did what he was asked. Yes, he could have done better second half but he will have nerves and have to get used to playing a certain role. It's easier for Sam T. He is told to go out there and play with flair and cause problems whereas Brown is told to fill the gaps Tomkins leaves. Who has the easier job?

It's about time people started realising rugby league isn't about the number on your back or where you are on the digital display for the teamsheet pre-match but about what you have to do to make that team work. And that whilst a player can do individual things that make himself look good combined with the efforts of others if he doesn't pull his weight in the un-noticed areas he contributes to making other players and his team look bad.

We will win and lose as a team. Not Wigan, or Leeds, or whoever else in SL. As England. And we are all in it.

Danril, I said it at the time (in the thread on the VT) that Brown was positioned differently to where NB has him (He had Tomkins there [The right decision by the way for the Wigan contingency as he is quicker ). This meant he wasn't in his natural position and I think it showed.

Losing 3 big players, one being the captain early doors, is going to test any team.

Not necessarily natural though Wadski; just what he isn't used to.
At our place he plays around Brough, Bodgy, Luke, Lunt and our strength is that we have these boys who move in and out of control which makes us unpredictable.

Today we took Tomkins off. That made us much more predictable, especially considering Maccer clear has him ear marked as the talisman. That is all well and good and, probably, the wisest thing to do given the length of the series and the time the squad has to get to know each other. However, if Sam gets injured we're screwed. This explains why SMc took him off.Only problem is it showed how much we'll miss him without solving the problem and, unfortunately, it is the only ay to learn yet exposes a big weakness in the squad.

Tomkins fit or not though we have no top drawer kicking game. That is bigger than any injury we can suffer.

Joel Tomkins was still dire though.

I was also disappointed to not see O'Loughlin with his trademark shot around the chops or lead with the elbow - mind you he didn't do much either really.

I'm not going to sh*t on JT on one display; that would make me a Wigan fan with a different shirt on! JT is a good player; he gives away too many penalties but is intimidated by no man which is a great quality IMO. He gets a grip on that and keep on trying to improve rather than thinking he's as good as some Wigan fans think he is and he will possibly become a truly great player.

He should go to the NRL, as should all our best lads (backs and halves especially) and in 5 years we'll put the sh*ts up them cocky bleeders.

I've been lead to believe on this very thread that Joel Tomkins was the best 2nd row in Superleague. He can't have off games can he?

i thought j tomkins looked out of his depth at this level at the moment wasnt dire but looked off the pace, think good lad for the future but not ready yet for me.