Despite having a large squad and being fairly fortunate with injuries ( compared to some teams) do the players look tired.

Last season our line speed in defence was superb and really allowed us to stop other teams playing, they were putt under pressure and made mistakes. This season we started off really well getting into the faces of our opponents ie against Wire at MM.

Over the last few weeks it seems to me that we are standing back off teams and not moving up as quick as we once did. Against Wigan we moved up two metres stopped and waited for the collission. This allowed Wigan to win the ruck and put them on a roll which we never recovered from. ( we did the same against Catalans the week before.)


We also worked the players hard in the warm up and only came off about two minutes before the game was to start. Players like robbo and Brown were looking tired before the game Kicked off.


Have we overdone the training and are now suffering or is it to do with the coaching. I cannot see how we have gone from such a tight defence to a struggling defence so quickly.

LOD is obviously a loss and Broughs kicking meant the forwards could start further downfield but that should not affect the line speed,

Is it my imagination or are we playing differently

we dont seem to be as quick at moving up as we were, but dont think the players are fatigued, the weather has become warmer so conserving energy could be a factor?
also without brough's kicking turning the opposition round regularly we aren't getting as much time to grab a breather,maybe this could be a factor in the way we are playing at the moment?

Our defencive record is very similar to last season.
We got a hammering from the best team in the league these things happen.
It is almoast exactly 12 months since we conceeded 44 point to Castleford which is far more embarrasing than losing to Wigan but we recovered and will do again this time.

well we were the fittest team last season.... we have a new head conditioner for this season

I hope they aren't suffering from fatigue 'cos I've just seen 'em being flogged around Leeds Road playing fields in the heat of the midday sun.

Danny Brough was also working with Greg Brown - looks to be running OK.

I actually said on Saturday while they were still going through a quite vigourous warm up that i hope it doesnt leave em knackered for the game because they were doing some energy sapping stuff in the warm up.

I thought we were rotating the team, to keep them fresh, and there were some complaining about it, now questions are being asked about fitness after losing to one of the best teams in the league, who just happen to be on form.

nothing to do with the Wigan defeat. We have being struggling defensively for a while particularly our goal line defence

dont think their tired to me just a poor performance on saturday, but we let 40 in at wire last year and 60 at home against them but still managed to come back at beat them in the play offs, which i think we are capable of doing to wigan this year, one defeat doesnt spell the end of the season to me, wigan look to be on fire at the moment, could they be doing a wire of last year and peaking too early.

Wigan had their best team out, we had arguably our best 2 players missing, they are on fire, we've been mis-firing.

Plenty of time to change things in our favour, we're still only 2 points from the top.

I said this about 2 weeks ago but was shouted down about having squad rotation and no one should be tired. If you get flogged 2/3 times a week and have a weight session the day before a game, you will be knackered. It was showing then, and certainly did agianst Wigan. Again they were flogged today in 31 deg heat. I fear we could be about to hit a 3/4 game blip.

Spot on, there is a stark difference between our goal line defence this season (particularly the last month) to last season where we nilled three teams and only conceeded one try against probably another three or four. One of the nillings was against Cas where we defended something like six or seven consecutive sets on our own line without issue. There is quite a difference this season.

i do feel some need a rest but i think the catalan game will have taken summat out of our forwards because that was very physical match but was a poor performance and finally come up against a team which was gonna blow us out of the water from the way we have been playing.

so a few changes in the pack will be probs changed for crusaders to keep things fresh and with warrington in mind but we are gonna have 2 big players coming back in the next few week that if avoid injury will be fresh for the rest of the season in LOD and brough so all hope is not lost

Still think that there is a problem with our defence.

Our defence does not seem as quick or as aggresive as it has been over the last couple of years.

About five years ago our defence used to stand back and wait for the attackers to move forward but when NB came that changed. We used to press up as a team and stopp the opposition forwards before they built up any momentum.

Now we seem to take a couple of steps forward wait for the attackers to hit the line. The net result is that they build up speed and seem to constantly get over the gain line..

Look at Wire or Wigan and they ar agressive, they attack their opponents, they stop forward momentum, they force errors and seem to work harder defensively than us.

I want to see Fa alogo hitting players like Westwood does.

Dislodge the ball like monaghan does and force errors.

I wonder if too much of our team has been based around Brough marching the forwards down the field and us being dogged in defence to force an error when our opponents are in their twenty. WE need to be agressive in defence all the time.

My other concern is that against bigger more aggresive packs we seem to be losing out in the forwards. We beat Wire twice this season because we battered them in the forwards Lunt was one of our best tacklers as he always took the players legs and stopped the leg drive.


We seem to be trying to emulate Wigan of last season, holding the player up before putting him down to slow the PTB. That works for Wigan because when they hold the player up they stop his forward momentum. We seem to hold them up and they still make 3 to 5 metres before we drop them. Are our pumped up second rows not big enough to handle BIG and specialist props like Carvell and Coley

Then we sem to be playing pumped up centres in the pack Lawrence. Surely that is something you plan for pre season not in the middle of the season against our major competitors.

Whilst i would be happy to see him at second row next season ( he could turn out to be the next Gilly as a quick second row who can play centre) i dont want a lightweight second row be having to defend behind second rows who are pushed up to prop


Have we sacrificed too much quality and specialists for a bigger squad and utility players.

Without signing a big aggresive prop i do worry about us letting Griffin go. We need an Andy Lynch or a Ray Cashmere.

Hopefully this is all part of NBs master plan to build a young quick team for the future and to save people for the big games which are the CC cup and the playoffs. I just dont think you can turn on form and confidence and at the same time be turning off the fans who are feeling confused and exasperated,

I have also noticed how were waiting for the attack to come to us more and more...........it could be fatigue, it could be that the opposition are hitting our guys harder and taking more out of them.

We also have to remember that as well as losing Brough we've also lost key players at various times this season which i dont think has helped to get a settled team and a proper roll on like we have in the past.

i'm not convinced NB will have coached them or instructed them to stop doing what has been so succesful though....it could be a confidence thing too because it seemed to happen more at Wire and Wigan.......the 2 teams who smashed us early on and the players had no answer to it.

we are playing people in the wrong positions and making things too complicated by having half back and full backs change positions for defence and attack. keep things simple and only make changes in positions you need to, dont change combinations that are starting to work such as centres and wingers. dont play any combination of patrick horne or kirmond together at the same time with their small size, poor defence and lack of go forward when under the cosh.

agree... but this is what happens when you go for a big squad, trying to keep players happy by giving them games

He is more bothered about the Wrestle than the line speed,we had the fastest line speed its gone but you just watch how much we try to wrestle its a joke,for me he has taken the edge off our big hitters Fa:llongo Mason,and a few more,for me all the tweaking he does with the team does not breed confidence,pick what he thinks is the best 17 and let them get on with it FFS looking at some off the players body language recently tells me all not well in the camp.

Well said mate


at the moment -though I wasnt there (on hols but would have been if Sky hadnt moved it!!) but watched it on telly - the first half at Warrington the defensive line was truly shapeless and some didnt appear to know where they should be positioned!
Hardly surprising ..................but against the best it wont work!

What's all this moaning from 'giants' fans? Players fatigued? You were outplayed from minute one on Friday. Deal with it.

I believe being in 3rd place flatters you. You certainly won't be competing with the big clubs like Wire come play-off time.

who's actually replacing brough at the moment, i know they've said grix moving up with cudjoe at fullback but cudjoe was no where really the other night, is the halfback situation more complicated than it needs to be?

Don't get too cocky, you've beaten us once in 3 attempts and even then you almost messed that up!

Won nothing yet and chances are we'll be meeting you in the playoffs.

4 first team players missing, Brough, Griffin, Faiumu, and Lunt - albeit Lunt is now out for the season.

ignore him, he's a WUM in disguise.

Didn't you say that last season?

How many Challenge Cups have you won recently?