I take your point, but it is a negative one at that. We should never even think about SL if our decision/financial decisions are so wafer thin. I refuse to accept Leigh should ever go into SL to make up the numbers - you seemingly are ok with this by.
Had we stayed up we still have the problem, of taking risks on new players and fans getting restless because they want to see us improving on previous season (nature of the beast), and you lose fans again when you can't deliver and its another relegation fight. You of all people know the disappointment of not improving, when the club went for broke in 2004 with rubbish gates after disappointments in previous seasons.

Which is exactly why the 2 divisions should be brought back together, reduced to 16, toulouse sent back to the elite and the NRC straight knockout.

And Starbug, would you not be hopeful that next time, after impressive figures every thursday, that the championship receive a much better package in the next tv contract. Personally i'd hope for it

I guess we'll always differ on the way 'forward'. Adding 'expansionist' teams has been tried before, and failed - especially in Wales and London. Perhaps the time is now right, although I can see there always being problems in those areas. The south of France is different - it is to an extent a 'RL area'.

I have grave misgivings about building an ambitious extension, when the foundations of the original building are crumbling. Anyway, time will tell - meanwhile, life would be pretty boring, if we all thought the same, eh?



By the way, I do not believe we (Leigh) have anywhere near 'earned' the right to SL, at any time in the past five years, and I do believe we have a long way to go before we 'earn' that right again - whatever the rules.

Any package would be better than what we have now, a few thousand a game that has to be spent on some form of promotion of the game. Thats from Co-op funding not Sky and the away team get nowt by the way if I remember correctly.

you'd hope for something.
There have been thursday night games this year that have outranked GP coverage on a sat/sun. Embarrassing for union but shows the Chp in a good light

Just read on the VT Ralph Rimmer has said on TV tonight "It wouldn't be right to promote a team from the Championship only to see them struggle". Looks like Widnes will be the last ones to make it then.......... or will they even make it?

They were all over Granada reports the other night. It looks nailed on now. If they don't by god there will be fireworks.

its just been on sky sports news.
it said one club from the championship will definatley be awarded a licence as long as they meet the minimum criteria.

16 is too many at the moment unfortunately IMO. There aren't 16 teams that could be brought in without 'diluting' the quality comp we finally have. If we could add a strong Keighley, Oldham, Whitehaven to the current teams then we would have 13 home games and still have a close and exciting comp. I have no idea what could then be done with the teams below though.

Did Mr Rimmer offer any thoughts on the existing Sooper Dooper League teams who perenially struggle?

Everybody else's financial decisions are just the same , thats why we have Quins losing millions a year , Crusaders losing millions a year , HKR 3 1/2 million in debt , Wakey needing a hand out to pay the IR , Huddersfield and the Bulls giving away season tickets , I just dont want or expect one person to be put under the pressure to fund it , going up for one season didn't harm us , 3 years could

There are 6/7 clubs in SL now that are just making up the numbers , do you really think we could ever be anything more than that , there are 15 club is the premiership just making the numbers up , all but 2 clubs in La Liga just making the numbers up , if you think any differently then it is you who is living in the past

Can you explain ' going for broke in 2004 ' ? , and while we're here , there are several other posts and questions you haven't answered , so away you go

Quite simply if franchising stays we are a Championship club , if P and R is reintroduced then we are a sometime Championship club and sometime a SL club

Franchising is only in use because it is the only way the RFL can protect expansion clubs , it has no other purpose in RL , NONE , it achieves none of the ' reported ' benifits

I'm not going to defend clubs already in SL on their debts etc - for starters I don't know enough and have no interest in them as such. I just know that under P&R we would still have them clubs in debt. But if the new marking system is working each 3 years then they should have their cards marked for it.
Winning a comp we are in should be a great achievement in itself. Winning a place in SL should not be an achievement because that is the easy bit, and without ambition to actually win it, to me is pointless. All the club would be doing is not adding something to SL and giving that comp a value of having us in it, but just making up the numbers until we get relegated.
I highlighted in my last post (and you ignore) fans will drop off because we aren't going forward. My point that if we stayed up for 3 years we would face a problem similar to your dooms day scenario of 3 years franchise - sport being sport you never know. OK we continue each season not taking any risks in case players break a toe nail, and only sign players on 1 year deals and continue being cautious but you know fans don't buy - because the bar of expectation rises.


I have posted before that up until Cheski signed Shaun Wright Phillips I used to have a genuine belief City would win the league. Now in those days the PL was lobsided, but not as bad as today of course. SL as a % success is already better than PL in that winning the comp over more teams. When you look at St Helens, they don't have a massive grip over many of the clubs "making up the numbers", especially crowd wise. I think its common knowledge that if it wasn't for their run of success they would be struggling. Time will tell if giving clubs time without threat of relegation to a PT comp will help make SL more competitive. We certainly shouldn't take your view and just accept the monotony of same 5 or 6 clubs being successful for ever.


This going for broke is do with having a squad of players way above our rivals, on very poor gates. You have confirmed this yourself, and don't say you didn't.
Regarding other questions, goodness knows what they are but I am offering my own opinions, but I'm not going to spend hours on here because threads are going off on a tangent to other subjects.


Your well known opinion. For the more ambitious thinking its an opportunity, like what we needed in 2005 to show we could have been better, and we had learned from the mistakes we made. We was so busy chasing the dream we seemingly didn't know what to do if we got there.


Again your opinion. The game are getting better facilities, which would not have happened before. Clubs are also judge on how they are run every 3 years unlike before.
You can argue and put points across about how the franchising process works, but its difficult to have a go at the principle of how it should help when done properly.

Since franchising was introduced how many new grounds have been built or even had a piece of turf cut ?

Wakefield Cas Salford maybe Saints ? Not sure.

I have explained before why we had a terrible 1 season in what was then Super League but isn't now.

How has franchising helped Crusaders and Harlequins ? Apart from getting non repayable loans from the RFL and TV money from Sky. And who owns Harlequins incidentally and who is chairman at Wigan ?

I too want us to get back into the top flight and win it. The only difference between us is you favour one route and I the other. Way back in the sixties before Murphy was signed I had been watching my team for over 10 seasons and before his arrival I never thought we would win the Challenge Cup or Championship but the club I follow did.

We can't now and neither can any other team in the seasons after next who are stranded in the Championship unless of course either Quins or Crusaders fold.

One thing that has happened since franchising which is a plus is the competativeness of the Championship but now Sky even cherry pick the top games for nothing to the Championship clubs and in turn the gate for that particular match suffers. Get Sky to pay decent money for Championship RL and I might be prepared'from a personal point of view' to give it another 2 seasons before complaining about this iniquitous restraint of trade.

which imo is why halifax and barra continue to play the rfl game.

that would allow the CC clubs to close the gap on the bottom half of sl whilst at the same time allowing them to fight for support on a more level playing field. do the rfl really want that?.

some one who believes in expantion at any cost will tell you that there are to many teams fighting for not enough supporters in the strongholds of lancs and yorks.

' Fans will drop off if we arent going forward ' , well yes they will , so how do you suggest we ' go forward ' ?

If you have relegation , you can still sign players on 3 year contracts , but if you are relegated you dont ahve to pay them , if on the other hand you stay up , then most likely you have been actually in competition with whichever other club goes down for the bulk of the season , like last year when we took those buses to Gatehead and pulled in decent gates towards the end , ie , it actually meant we had something to play for

I havent suggested we dont sign players on longer than one year contracts

So a SL of 15 is the rumour? Are they frightened of their decision being challenged?

No

Yes gates were down in 2004 , why that was I dont know , other than we didn't have any derby games as such and Fax didn't provide the competition we had had previously , as for a squad way above our rivals , it was still within the newly introduced salary cap and didn't unduly pressurise us financially

In truth we have had 2 seasons of franchising, in the biggest recession in goodness knows how many years - not enough time and pure bad luck to be able to judge properly. hopefully even you who is vehemently against franchises will at least acknowledge that.


Just to clarify when I said getting into SL was the easy part, I am referring to pre franchises. Another words just plan for onfield only.


We could go around in circles with this one - the last system didn't work. Going back to 2004 told us this, because according to the P&R brigade chasing SL and having the excitement of relagation over your heads creates full houses every week, when in fact as we know it didn't. Apart from the that world famous Cas v Wakey game, and GF.
As for going forward, you tell me. Because according to your view clubs are protected by getting relegated, but will go under if given 3 years knowing where they are. But if we stagnate by just enjoying the sunshine and show no ambition for 3 years avoiding relegation we won't go bankrupt.

Sorry frank - all been said before. So have most of this thread.
So thats me done!

I said we could if we ended up stuck at the bottom of the league , which in my opinion could easily happen , we dont have the finance to go straight to max salary cap from the start , unless of course people expect Mr Thomas to treble the amount he puts in already for ever

Yes I accept we are only 3 years in , and any benifits will only start to show in 5/6 years time , by then the gap will be so large it will never be bridged

So our future is already in the Championships , all I want is a fair crack of the whip for ourselves and the other clubs in there

I too am tired and it has been done to death

Too true mate but we are still Leythers.

Exactly. Support your side and accept you'll never be more than a (very) small town championship club

I'm not a violent man Dico, but with you I could make an exception. How can you say anything about Leigh coming from Wartington. Your just a scouse overspill comunity with no identity. And yes I don't care about my spelling or grammer because in the modern world it really doesn't matter. All that matters is being decent person which you richard head are not. Please lock this now before it gets like the others this fool comments on.

made me laugh



Dont let him bother you hes a grade 1 c0ck. Thing is Leigh is a hotbed for RL and the town is being invested in (LSV new large TESCO and so on). If Leigh got into SL surely a large company new to the area could sponsor you. You have the talent which you would be able to hold onto, a nice new stadium, sky money and a loyal fan base. Its more than some SL clubs have now.

In order to be in SL you shouldnt have to win or be in a final to qualify. When was the last time Wakefield, Cas or Quins got to a final? Does that mean they should be kicked out as they have had 3 years to get to 1. Answer is no and the same should apply to the teams in the NL. It should matter more how good the club is doing off the field as on the field can be fixed qucikly off the field cant.