Then we could have really backrupted ourselves properly

Answer - very little. Although one or two local clubs were quietly pleased with the level of away support that passed through their turnstiles. And that is something that some of the franchised clubs will never be able to provide.

really is interested in as it is mid season , the TV deal is a joke actually costing clubs money and the sponsorship of the competition has been given away

They are now probably going to even mess up the only good thing we have , which is 2 very competitive competitions both with something to play for

However Alan the thing is , if we had a guaranteed 3 years and found ourselves unable to compete , that level of support would have quickly dropped off , as it did on our visits to Hull

It does wind me up when I look at how the RFL are dealing with the franchising etc but thats as a RL fan.

As a Leigh fan I couldn't care less. We have a good new set up, a decent team and a great set of fans.
The league overall is now closer, more exciting and more competitive than SL. Yes we need/want to bring in a few more fans but thats up to us.

The RFL should leave our league as it is and not start messing around with what is finally a good league/season.

Only problem I have with our league at the moment is that if/when widnes go up to SL we will be at a real loss for any real derby matches which is a shame.

I think most of us accept that we wont be in SL for quite some time so let them keep on with their embarrasingly vague criteria and clubs changing names and locations every season.

We should just get behind OUR team and make the most of what promises to be a brilliant championship season.

As one of the more balanced posters on here, you have to agree that taking a good support to away games which are upto 7 miles away is hardly winner of the acievement of the year award.
You can't subsidise clubs with local fans from other clubs as basis to run a whole sport, and use as excuse not expand the game. It just gives a false view of how well we are doing because you are really just combining 2 home gates, to then say look at us with 7000 on against Wire, when week after we could be down to 3000 against a team with little away support. Its up to the home club to get their own fans in.

So your projection (from making a profit) of staying up (had we done so) would have meant going bankrupt?

Well said! Focus on the great comp we are playing in.

Relegation is a ' safety valve ' both in playing terms and financial terms , as the two are linked

We managed to essentially break even , we could have promised more money to different players and got even less points than we did , we could have spent less money to different players and got more points than we did

You have no control over what happens

I don't entirely agree with that. Obviously it is the home team's responsibility to boost it's support, but surely SL clubs budget for a level of away support - especially from clubs nearby? Wigan's finances would have a significant hole without the Saints/Warrington fans coming through the turnstiles, as would Leeds, without Bradford fans, or Hull, without Hull KR supporters. So, I would suggest that SL clubs are to an extent dependant on away fans tutning up.

I cant agree fully Nozzy as we need more games per season only having 10 home league games must be putting a great financial strain on the clubs resources, IMO we need another 5 at least then we may be able to move forward and maybe have a 'real' profit for the season. Other than that I cant see any great argument with your post, but a transparent governing body who fairly administrate treating ALL member clubs the same would be a bonus.

I totally agree with what you say here. tbh this is really a given. What I was getting at is having even more derbies, ie fev for Cas & Wakey, or us for W1gan etc. Big Derbies are supposed to be special games - ie your Leeds-Bradford, Hull/KR etc. Adding heartland clubs over expansion teams just because they take 2-3000 more away fans to a ground that could be called a home game to some isn't the way forward unless people want the game to go backwards as regional sport again.

I take your point, but it is a negative one at that. We should never even think about SL if our decision/financial decisions are so wafer thin. I refuse to accept Leigh should ever go into SL to make up the numbers - you seemingly are ok with this by.
Had we stayed up we still have the problem, of taking risks on new players and fans getting restless because they want to see us improving on previous season (nature of the beast), and you lose fans again when you can't deliver and its another relegation fight. You of all people know the disappointment of not improving, when the club went for broke in 2004 with rubbish gates after disappointments in previous seasons.

Which is exactly why the 2 divisions should be brought back together, reduced to 16, toulouse sent back to the elite and the NRC straight knockout.

And Starbug, would you not be hopeful that next time, after impressive figures every thursday, that the championship receive a much better package in the next tv contract. Personally i'd hope for it

I guess we'll always differ on the way 'forward'. Adding 'expansionist' teams has been tried before, and failed - especially in Wales and London. Perhaps the time is now right, although I can see there always being problems in those areas. The south of France is different - it is to an extent a 'RL area'.

I have grave misgivings about building an ambitious extension, when the foundations of the original building are crumbling. Anyway, time will tell - meanwhile, life would be pretty boring, if we all thought the same, eh?



By the way, I do not believe we (Leigh) have anywhere near 'earned' the right to SL, at any time in the past five years, and I do believe we have a long way to go before we 'earn' that right again - whatever the rules.

Any package would be better than what we have now, a few thousand a game that has to be spent on some form of promotion of the game. Thats from Co-op funding not Sky and the away team get nowt by the way if I remember correctly.

you'd hope for something.
There have been thursday night games this year that have outranked GP coverage on a sat/sun. Embarrassing for union but shows the Chp in a good light

Just read on the VT Ralph Rimmer has said on TV tonight "It wouldn't be right to promote a team from the Championship only to see them struggle". Looks like Widnes will be the last ones to make it then.......... or will they even make it?

They were all over Granada reports the other night. It looks nailed on now. If they don't by god there will be fireworks.

its just been on sky sports news.
it said one club from the championship will definatley be awarded a licence as long as they meet the minimum criteria.

16 is too many at the moment unfortunately IMO. There aren't 16 teams that could be brought in without 'diluting' the quality comp we finally have. If we could add a strong Keighley, Oldham, Whitehaven to the current teams then we would have 13 home games and still have a close and exciting comp. I have no idea what could then be done with the teams below though.

Did Mr Rimmer offer any thoughts on the existing Sooper Dooper League teams who perenially struggle?

Everybody else's financial decisions are just the same , thats why we have Quins losing millions a year , Crusaders losing millions a year , HKR 3 1/2 million in debt , Wakey needing a hand out to pay the IR , Huddersfield and the Bulls giving away season tickets , I just dont want or expect one person to be put under the pressure to fund it , going up for one season didn't harm us , 3 years could

There are 6/7 clubs in SL now that are just making up the numbers , do you really think we could ever be anything more than that , there are 15 club is the premiership just making the numbers up , all but 2 clubs in La Liga just making the numbers up , if you think any differently then it is you who is living in the past

Can you explain ' going for broke in 2004 ' ? , and while we're here , there are several other posts and questions you haven't answered , so away you go

Quite simply if franchising stays we are a Championship club , if P and R is reintroduced then we are a sometime Championship club and sometime a SL club

Franchising is only in use because it is the only way the RFL can protect expansion clubs , it has no other purpose in RL , NONE , it achieves none of the ' reported ' benifits

I'm not going to defend clubs already in SL on their debts etc - for starters I don't know enough and have no interest in them as such. I just know that under P&R we would still have them clubs in debt. But if the new marking system is working each 3 years then they should have their cards marked for it.
Winning a comp we are in should be a great achievement in itself. Winning a place in SL should not be an achievement because that is the easy bit, and without ambition to actually win it, to me is pointless. All the club would be doing is not adding something to SL and giving that comp a value of having us in it, but just making up the numbers until we get relegated.
I highlighted in my last post (and you ignore) fans will drop off because we aren't going forward. My point that if we stayed up for 3 years we would face a problem similar to your dooms day scenario of 3 years franchise - sport being sport you never know. OK we continue each season not taking any risks in case players break a toe nail, and only sign players on 1 year deals and continue being cautious but you know fans don't buy - because the bar of expectation rises.


I have posted before that up until Cheski signed Shaun Wright Phillips I used to have a genuine belief City would win the league. Now in those days the PL was lobsided, but not as bad as today of course. SL as a % success is already better than PL in that winning the comp over more teams. When you look at St Helens, they don't have a massive grip over many of the clubs "making up the numbers", especially crowd wise. I think its common knowledge that if it wasn't for their run of success they would be struggling. Time will tell if giving clubs time without threat of relegation to a PT comp will help make SL more competitive. We certainly shouldn't take your view and just accept the monotony of same 5 or 6 clubs being successful for ever.


This going for broke is do with having a squad of players way above our rivals, on very poor gates. You have confirmed this yourself, and don't say you didn't.
Regarding other questions, goodness knows what they are but I am offering my own opinions, but I'm not going to spend hours on here because threads are going off on a tangent to other subjects.


Your well known opinion. For the more ambitious thinking its an opportunity, like what we needed in 2005 to show we could have been better, and we had learned from the mistakes we made. We was so busy chasing the dream we seemingly didn't know what to do if we got there.


Again your opinion. The game are getting better facilities, which would not have happened before. Clubs are also judge on how they are run every 3 years unlike before.
You can argue and put points across about how the franchising process works, but its difficult to have a go at the principle of how it should help when done properly.