I think most people are agreeing with you mate

The RFL passed Celtic into SL based on a supposed fair equal franchise process.
I don't think you'll find many who have faith in the legitimateness of the process after the last 2 months happenings at Celtic.
Unfortunatly I include the Celtic fans in that, they'll have had in circa 12months a loss of home base/ground , loss of players due unable to get here for the season start, financial problems and 6 players deported.

IMO this isn't just bad luck, its very poor and maybe a governing body going in with either eyes wide shut or not looking for proper evidence to back up what was said by the club as they was too desperate for this venture to succeed and any common sense was ignored.

In terms of why I felt they was always going up regardless of franchises, quote from the Celtic chairman in July 09.
"I was approached in 2004 to start up a club that was capable of getting into Super League by 2009," said Samuel.

I want RL to expand, however we must expand from a strong base and build outwards with long term effort and stick to the plans.
Under Lewis we are gaining 1,500 fans in Bridgend but losing 1,500 in Cumbria - that isn't expansion thats just moving support around.

Yeh mate, think what im saying is, maybe if Leigh got there act together like Widnes then they would have a better chance of Super league......its no ones fault but Leigh.

I think most Leigh fans know that Widnes should be in SL before us anyway good luck at wembley and the rest of the season.

IAN

Its a disgrace and someone s head at RED HALL should roll, but it wont and CEltic will get a points deduction which means nothing ,a slapped wrist, and carry on, in a town where 96% of its inhabitats havent even heard of them.
They will finish bottom again next year and struggle to find a decent following wherever they move to.
London kept moving and changing names and it still have a smalll fan base because of their location.
SL has 14 teams in and 4 have stadiums that are nt fit. Will THE RFL boot any out in 2011, I think not.
They may put Widnes in if a team were to fold or theres enough funds form SKY to have 15 teams.
WE can only hold that we have a great year next season as we have to get to a GF or win the NRC to apply in the Autumn for a Franchise. If two teams were to go, I d say we,d have an outside chance.

And? Well done RFL for getting someone in the area to put together a club in Wales. Still can't see in that statement where they would be in SL no matter what. They had to be in NL1 to even apply. They did that.
Bellyaching about Celtic all the time,and stating Lewis should resign etc by the same few fans is a bit repetitive and boring now.
Regarding fan bases - Where do you get evidence that crowds are going down like you say because of Celtic ? Crowds fluctuate depending on success on the field etc - again look at us 2001 compared to now. Nothing to do with Celtic either.
Lets worry about ourselves, and get crowds up, and get to be a successful team outside of SL again. 2004 since we was a real force at this level, and the crowds wasn't there then either.

Look pal, if you're going to give it the 100 years of failure thing, you should perhaps compare our clubs' 100 years of honours and see that we're about even and that we topped the pile a lot more recently than you did.

In other words that was a crass statement at best that tells me you're very young, very thick or both.

2 points for crowds.......we tick the other boxes.
We also finished 2nd, with another 2 play-off positions and CC final to boot. Yes we were a team full of Australians to start with, but given that LMS and Tony Clubb were 9 and 10 yrs old when Sooooperleague started and are now England Internationals, London's existance as a development area has been justified. Without the SL team, this would not have happened. There are some who say about time....but these two are Rugby League Players, not Union converts......and we now have capped players at all the Under age international levels as well.

Crowds are terrible, but by comparison, so are many other teams.

Leigh have a rich RL history, but the RFL have their own agenda to expand the game and as such, the Welsh project will continue.

I would have thought that Widnes would be in the box seat as it stands for a SL place next time around (or before if someone goes tits up), but if you can keep or increase your crowds from 1,846 league average, you will be there or there abouts. What won't help you, regardless of if he is right or not, is your CEO saying "I told you so".

Some people, their team gets a wembley place and suddenly their speccies can cast judgement over something they know sod all about and concerns then even less, if they would bother to actually read whats written no one is saying Leigh deserved a SL place but that people in the know forecast what would happen at Celtic and it would appear that the RFL have conspired in this blatant breach of rules and law.
Celtic wont get any points deduction or punishment as they are frightened to death of Samuels pulling the plug completely before they can find another fool to waste his/her money in a doomed venture.
Lets see what these SL people would say if the SLE suddenly said next year "By the way chaps we are docking your TV money by a tenth this year as Celtic are struggling and need the dosh badly" the wailing and nashing of teeth would be terrible to behold.
As for Celtics speccies I fel for them as much as I feel for Bramleys, or Carlisle or for any other teams fans that the RL have disregarded and cast out in the past.

1. It concerns me, because I am a RL fan. I care what happens to ALL Rugby League Clubs and agree that the RFL have not acted well when it comes to expansion over tradition. That said, I take issue with the fans of the so called more deserving clubs who appear to Gloat at the potential demise of Celtic......especially fans of a club that managed a massive 4,735 average attendance in their one and only year in Superleague and picked up 5 points


2. Know sod all do I? Maybe I don't know as much as you, but I know a fair bit. One of the things I do know is that Rome wasn't built in a day and "expansion" is a long game. There is no quick fix and Celtic (if they can survive this) should be given that time. I also know, that outside the M62 bubble that some people think is THE WORLD, there are opportunities to expand the game. The alternative is that you revert to the good old days or morcame and wise, the wheeltappers and shunters club, the black and white minstrel show and poor crowds, clubs going bust and wigan buying everything they could lay their hands on

What concerns me is that you have no pride in your region. The North of England isn't the morcame (sic) and wise dump that most people in the South like to portray it as!

Didn't say it was (did I?)

You implied that RL needed to expand, otherwise it would be portrayed in the way you described. I am suggesting that the RL authorities believe this too. There should be no problem in having RL as a proud regional sport.

Look at Australian Rules, it is successful in a limited geographical area.

I didn't mean to imply it. The North of England has as much, if not more cultural heritage than us suverners......it's just a stereotype that has been around longer than RL....

Australian Rules is the number 1 sport in that country, so you can't compare it to RL in England. And, remember the state of RL before Murdoch bought the RFL? It was up the creek without a paddle......and Wigan winning everything was boring.
Expansion is a slow process (see earlier post about cockney England internationals) and the same can be said for the Salary Cap. Change takes time and a lot of the negativity posted about expansion probably comes from impatience.

Since when were Harlequins at Wembley?

(dont jump the gun just read what was wrote IN FULL) as for our one and only year in SL maybe if we had been allowed 3 years grace and be allowed to stretch the rules to suit then maybe we would have been more successfull, but its all maybe's we will never know and as for Harlequins and Celtic well lets just say at least we got in SL on merit and actually WON and deserved a place there and were not put there because a TV company decreed it be so.
And instead of being a troll and actually reading this board more often you would see that I did not want promotion as we were not ready (both in 2005 and 2009) and in 2004 actually predicted we would be in or around Div 2 (as was) before 2010.
Also dont forget that if the RFL had not stepped in to find London (whoever you were called then) a backer then you would have actually been taken over by the Leigh Centurions, so in effect you owe your survival to us because the RFL had to get off its ample backside and actually work for one of its member clubs to stop it going bust (now what if that club had been any other than London whatsits????- you would have been history AGAIN). By the way pardon my spelling I took your lead in not spell checking (MorecamBe has a B in it

).

In answer to your well structured (and spelt

) reply, before SL, Rugby League was on its @arris. As a condition (sell more ads/dishes) the cougars were sacrificed to let London Broncos in at the request of SLY TV. Nobody in London gloated over this, we simply took our chance with both hands and as a result, have proved that whilst the public down here are not that bothered, we have created a new production line of decent RL talent that is bearing fruit.
As for deserving a place in SL.....good job you didn't buy us then, or that would have been a back door(

) entry as well would it not?
The RFL didn't find Ian Lenagan....he found us and Quins RU were sold the idea of a tie in by IL. As for the vote to re-admit us in 2005.........we again hold our hands up to this and say "phew" collectively. Your wording of the 3 year grace period, followed by our name put together with Celtic is clumsy at best. We never finished in a relegation position and never had the 3 year safety net. Catalan on the other hand went on to show what a good deciosion this was in their case at the expense of Widnes. As for stretching the rules, we did have a bigger quota than other teams to start with as the stereotype of the south that is held up north prevented us from attracting UK players and therefore we were given time. Offiah and Edwards came for "pension" reasons, but we are now a viable option for UK players, together with the 9 we have that we created so far.
As for being a troll, I am not a troll, I was simply pointing out that regardles of what individual fans of individual clubs think, the GAME needs to expand or it will lose SLY TV money and die.
If some of the anti- Celtic posters put as much effort into supporting their clubs as they do slagging off the opposition then their clubs would all be worrying the likes of Wakey/Salford/Castleford in 2011.

Fair and reasoned arguments from gutterfax there.
Very well put.

Celtic and the RFL speak tonight on Boots 'n' All. www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 91,00.html

Celtic and the RFL speak tonight on Boots 'n' All. www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 91,00.html

silly question






in same vein as clubs having grounds built before last franchise carve up, sorry hand out.

Oops sorry Henry i will let you kick me in the shins next home game

not to hard though

Pretty much everything Allan Rowley said and argued about has come home to roost. Whilst he might have chosen his words better (or done what Steve O'Connor did and wait for someone else to shoot the bullets) the fact remains he wasn't far off right.

This has made him out to be a backward naysayer from a pit village in many quarters.

However, what won't be reported are his complimentary words for Toulouse at the weekend, spoken in front of maybe 200 people after the match, praising their approach, their history, and their development into being a club strong enough for SL.

Still should not be in our league though Steve

Especially with a get out of jail free card

I would agree that the money spent on the Toulouse experiment could be better spent developing our 'own game' rather than warming them up for the benefit of SL Europe, let alone putting their interests ahead of any other Championship club.

I'd put them in now and let SL work with them, then spend the £000's of travel money on the British game - but that would be a disaster for them and SL.

However, in my support of Toulouse, the region itself they do have RL history and they do have RL players, and arguably an established structure that can grow to a size required to sustain itself, like Catalans had/have.

When Celtic have the same, they might have a better chance than they do now. Thier Cheif Exec said the same tonight......(sky sports website)



That was Allans main arguement, the structure isn't there yet they are plonked in regardless. In France I would argue it is, whether it is of sufficient quality is another thing.