Nice dodge



How or what are these new ideas you believe the rfl are trying?

Less games? right less money

Spreading the game to ????????? whilst clubs go under or now attract crowds comparable with the top amatuer teams

Oh I forget what great advances have we made on the international front???



So come on leigh leigh....list me the benifits the game as had whilst under sky

Please show us the advances the sport as made in this country under it please

I've listed the downfall...I just want one of you believers to convince us its for the best...over to you

Rome wasn't built in a day as I said further back. Where have I said the game has made it ?
In 1895 the Northern Union was formed. What a brave decision that was, and how grateful we are that they did what they did.
To also get that decision that was made rubber stamped 100 years later by RU when they finally admitted we was right after all by becoming professional too.
Only problem was while RL was picking off Unions best players while they was just an amateur game before, they would then have to fend Union off our players backed by much more money than league. Good job we moved to summer and Sky came to the rescue at perfect time.
Its very easy now to just dismiss Skys contribution to the game. Its also very easy to look back at 80's/90's fondly and think we should go back to how it was, and forget what was round the corner.

LL, what was round the corner?

A rosey future built on competitive Ashes series, record test gates and a product that Sky wanted to get a return on.

No wonder the play off gates are down.
It took Dave Woods 5 mins to explain it last night on BBC2, And after all the explaining everyone in our pub said - so how does the playoffs work in SL this year

In summer season yes. Not a winter sport as they had that covered. I have been to lots of tests in SL era, and the atmosphere have been great - Elland Road/JJB, Even against NZ the atmosphere was cracking and grounds full.
But unfortunately GB (or England) now just build our hopes up and then do the usual. Which are having a big effect on gates now
But there isn't a quick fix to this. Glory-fying an era gone by isn't something to learn from because the sporting landscape has changed beyond recognision to them days.

As to Ad's comment about what is round the corner, just read my post again.

Crowds like 70000 at Wembley and sell outs at OT and Elland Rd??

Face it more people watched RL pre SL and test gates were much higher. The biggest obstacle facing us was to go FT to compete fully with the Convicts. Most sports were starting to benefit from payt tv (Sky) and so for Sky to court RL was an obvious choice, and one which gives them the best return per viewer of all the majors still.

For all the new fans at Bradford, more were lost at Fax, Keighley, Batley, Dewsbury, Oldham, Rochdale, Swinton, York, Barrow, Workington, Whitehaven, Widnes, Fev and until recently HKR.

We had sell out at Elland Road a few years ago - the best pre game atmosphere I can remember being part of for RL international. It was down hill after the whistle went of course. The fans are still there for when we do finally get the upperhand. The RL spirit for the big occassion has been a long time tradition with the GF and CC getting supported by the neutrals as well as the finalists. When the big day happens we will fill Wembley again.
I am glad you recognise the significants of Sky to our game. That was mainly my point. Take sky away from our history and the game would be in a bad state with Union benefitting.
Regarding losing fans - how many did we lose chasing the holy grail, and when getting there failing to compete ? We have never recovered since and have been going backwards - and still we want to be considered for 2012 even though we are poor at the moment at the level we are at.

Apologies LL, perhpas I wasn't clear. It was this bit I meant. Was, not is.



What was round the corner before Sky came along? I've looked but I don't think you have said.

With your history I never know if you are just being difficult and sarcastic tbh

But my post was aimed originally at "jesus-is-coming" (icon_lol.gif great user name)
stating :

The around the corner bit was this which was in the same post - I didn't want to type it out again thats why I said read again, but I have now anyway :

To say Sky have not added to our game is just strange thing to say.

I dont try to be difficult or sarcastic, if you can't answer a simple question or have a discussion without sulking then thats your issue.

You made it seem like the game was at deaths door pre Sky. Whilst they may have added a lot, take a few minutes to look at the balance sheets of the clubs and tell me the game is healthier now than it was in the mid 90's.

We're nowhere nearer beating the Aussies and have not produced one world class half back despite being fully pro for the best part of 15 years and tens of millions of pounds going through the clubs coffers.

Stadia have not improved unless they've been provided by others, and the quality of rugby is no better than it was back then. Watch some of Freds videos and see. I'll admit its a different approach and the players are fitter but as a spectical I honestly don't think its any better.

In my lifetime, the best performance by a country mile from a GB team against the Aussies was in Sydney in 88. We have not come anywhere near matching it. Nor have we produced players like Hanley, Edwards, Connolly, Myler, Woods, Lydon.

The game has to evolve I agree but it wasn't as bad as people think it was and certainly not saved by Sky.

Despite bringing prosperity to players pockets, what Sky have also done is put the game at risk. If they pulled out the game as we know it would be in a far worse state than it ever has.

British (English) Rugby League is struggling, why all the 'tampering' with our fantastic sport every season then. The RFL only ever come out with 'possitives' within our game, and rightly so, but the reality is so much different. It's a 'minority' sport, but some folk at RL HQ, are living in dreamland, ambition is fine, but a little reality wouldn't go a miss.
Swinton and Bramley are just as important as Catalans & The Welsh Crusaders.

This statement sums up everything i believe about the current state of the game.

RFL Dreamers take note.

Around the corner was at first having a fence around your pitch, later it was paying players, then terracing, then stands, then floodlights, then TV, then 2 divisions, then 6 tackles, etc

Around the corner was how all mainline sports have benefitted from the advent of subscription tv, its just that RL doesnt know its value and undersells the product allowing RU to oversell its.

In todays world we cant compete with RU, we can offer alternatives and grow from a genuine powerbase instead of throwing money into the wind called expansion hoping some will stick.

Heres a RL blueprint, central contracts for the top 50 players paid from the Sky deal (based upon individuals worth eg current £100k, emerging £50k) those players are then restricted on games played and attend regular GB training sessions. 2 divisions of 10 FT clubs with one up one down, no more than 2 non gb/France players at each club.

So apart from saving wigan as they had gone to the wall that summer,what other reason have we to thank sky for ?????

Great I can watch every match nearly every weekend but to be honest since the franchise nonsense I watch less and less super league action the only game I now watch is the national league game on a thursday.

This being the league that sky pay nothing too but own the rights to ??? figure that one out



The coming month is the big test for rl in this country,a 3/4 full old traffold and a half full 4 nations is the begining of the end to franchise in this country as the fans will vote one way or another on how the game is currently being run

I was going to give the tests a miss this year ,first time in god knows when,got talked into going to the piedome over a pint at the weekend.


Falling crowds and a dwindling tv audiance this year does not bode well...but as long as we can only spend 150k on players this year everything is ok

money saved

Brilliant post....genius. The game deserves to go back to the way it was pre-sooperleague because it was so much better then


Enjoy Skolars away next year...."fans" like you deserve to!

Right come on show me how its better?

Seems you have no answers

Once again show me how the game now is better ?please I await you indepth veiw

I will enjoy going to the matches next year...and please explain why I deserve it..please enlighten us all...please

Sulking....are you real?

There are bigger things to sulk about - like what happened on Sunday.

It was at deaths door for the pro game. Leeds where on the brink, and so where W1gan - biggest clubs in the game. How many times was it that W1gan went to Wembley in a row (1987/88, 1988/89, 1989/90, 1990/91, 1991/92, 1992/93, 1993/94, 1994/95) how many times did W1gan win the league season after season (1989/90, 1990/91, 1991/92, 1992/93, 1993/94, 1994/95, 1995/96)- do we really want to see that again ? One club having all the best players playing FT and the books could only be balanced if they went to Wembley and continued to be successful. Clubs like Leeds and Widnes tried to break it up but ended up worse off. Great times indeed. Like I said lucky we moved into Summer, and got the Sky investment.

France made history in 50's by beating Aus in Aus - had Sky been around then 10 years later and they declined a little during this would you have stated similar to what you say now about GB

.....they went down hill just like we did since '88 (the glory time when we came close but still didn't beat them). We had some great players then yes, but we have had other battles to contend with like greedy clubs getting giddy and wasting money like little kids in a candy store. That is all clubs including ones at our level squadering cash given us.
RL in Aus is massive but in this country some fans (are you one?) prefer it to be kept a big secret and played in pockets of areas in the north. Until we have more peaople playing the game thus giving the international teams a bigger pool to choose from we will struggle against the Ausies, including that world class half back (though you should have said better than Aus HB's). In the 80's 90's did we not pluck the best RU players to help us out - from a amateur sport, and could we have stopped Union taking our best players had they seen sense and been professional years earlier than they did? Was there more going on than there is now ? Its well known this country is suffering from lazy over eaters with the playstation/internet revelotion etc. Its so so different. Unyet all this backdrop is ignored, when nowadays its just as likely a top player can later play for England RU or England RL who is from Leigh. Because you have the pathway right on our doorstep. You never know we might see a young Leigh lad make it good in RU, and be in a winning WC squad - now how many people would that influence to the dark side ?



RL have messed up with the stadia criteria. IN P&R the RFL let Wakey in SL on promises. When a club with similar facilities win GF and ask to go in SL they are told no your stadium is not upto stadard. But wait a minute Mr SL what about Wakey? errrr.....Git, if only we had told Wakey to sort themselves out before entry.
The licences have not finishd te 1st season yet. But judging clubs this way gives RFL a chance to kick them out, unlike the farce before. Whether they are strong enough to do it is another matter. But for 2009 licences after my annoyances subsided I suppose you had to give them this 3 years to sort it.
Regarding the games I do actually agree to a certain point about a lot of games being dull especially this season. You get seasons like this in football too. Hopefully next season will be better.


Great players yes. But to blame SL and Sky as some have seems too convenient. Money was squandered at 1st, and because of mentality of clubs (remember it happened in 80s/90s too teams trying to catch W1gan) chasing quick fixes etc, and things like salary cap brought in to help curb it. P&R taking up half the top leagues clubs thoughts because of the dreaded PT league trap door. Give licences 5 years or so and then see how we are. There seems to be more home grown players being given the chance by a lot more clubs this season, but of course this isn't highlighted so much. Time will tell....




The professional game was saved by Sky. Do you really think RU would have left us be after years of pillaging their players ?




The game is indeed at risk if Sky pull the plug. Isn't that the same with most football clubs. Are you telling me the Prem would manage without £1.5billion quid from outside broadcasters alone, never mind the mind-boggling money we get from Sky and the benefits the game gets from the exposure it gets that gets even more money in.
Once we stand still and stop having ambitions of speading the gospel is then the count down to losing a lot of TV money.


Also look at the history of the game especially before the second world war and all the pioneers that spread the game, and enabled nations to not only play the game but be better than us. RU was king in France in the '30s, and one ex RU man started the revolution (Jean Galia), and if it hadn't been for the RFL seeing this opportunity (ie the French had been banished from the intl game at that time) then there would be no RL there now. France where beating us and Australia approaching the war, and became bigger than RU in a very short time. What happened later of course was a travesty.

Thats my last input on this thread.....

It was at deaths door for the pro game. Leeds where on the brink, and so where W1gan - biggest clubs in the game. How many times was it that W1gan went to Wembley in a row (1987/88, 1988/89, 1989/90, 1990/91, 1991/92, 1992/93, 1993/94, 1994/95) how many times did W1gan win the league season after season (1989/90, 1990/91, 1991/92, 1992/93, 1993/94, 1994/95, 1995/96)- do we really want to see that again ? One club having all the best players playing FT and the books could only be balanced if they went to Wembley and continued to be successful. Clubs like Leeds and Widnes tried to break it up but ended up worse off. Great times indeed. Like I said lucky we moved into Summer, and got the Sky investment.




So let me get this right the game was dead because wigan bankrupt themselves...no one else just wigan


Oh and Leeds had won diddle squat for decades


At no point were leeds on any brink of going bankrupt,they were and still are the richest club

So one club blows all its money trying to win everything and the game was sunk

Lets say sky never came in..do you think the game would have folded?

or would it just carried on with someone taking over at wigan and restarting off again?

Plus other clubs just stepping into the breech?

And teams rising to the top instead of them?

What if keighley had been allowed that year to go up pre super league...5k crowds on and challening bradford...but no kill them off from going up and steal there ideas

You don't recognise a problem when 2 of biggest clubs in RL are in trouble?
You are quite happy to see clubs fold and start again ? I hate that because its people with lack of responsibility that do this, especially to the businesses whose livings depend on that clubs money they won't get.
In 1996 Leeds was in trouble......low crowds and starved of success and years of being ran very badly. SL gave them the platform to become what they are now, the biggest club in the country and successful with them doing more than their fair share to help the international team.
Regarding Keighley it was a shame. But at the start of SL there was loads of mistakes. SL/Sky happened so fast, but them lessons are being learned. In truth though their ground is too small IMO. I could put list forward myself of the mistakes and bad decisions the RFL made but thats too easy, and its sometimes worth looking just occassionally at positives.
Widnes under their own steam for example went up the wall chasing the dream the "right way" when they didn't get in SL. Mistakes mistakes. You carry on picking up on negatives. Who needs enemies of the sport when you are around.....


Deffo last on the subject. If you won't even open your eyes for a second then I waste my time.

Not going to quote all that, but what gives a 'big' club the right to remain a big club? If they can't run their club/business successfully then they should suffer the consequences.

Demon how dare you .........you`ve just deflated his/her baloon...........

Its some balloon to deflate on this subject, I think he is Lewis's love child or has been body snatched by him



RL was sticking 90000+ bums into Wembley for a CC final every year we were that far on our s

Leeeigh Leeeigh

You say that we don't want to go back to the days when Wig@n dominated the game - well after all these years of Stupid League we still have a situation where just 2 teams dominate (Leeds / Saints) - is that a success?

Years ago any one of 12 teams each season could win the league / Challenge Cup and the several other trophies available. Bigger crowds come from success in cup games - if the success is shared by several teams then gates would increase all around - even at clubs that had a slight chance of a little glory.

I have been a RL supporter for 40+ years and must admit that these days, even though I have access to Sky sports, I rarely watch SL games - I just can't be ar$ed. The Thursday games are more interesting but the choice of games is poo.