LL the rfl posted record profits last year so how are they skint??

The game had lasted 100 years without the meddling from sky

Before sky joined we were filling wembley and hiring old traffold

Now before we got oursleves in this mess was our competition not better run?

Season started ,lancs cups midweek(great local derbies)john player up to and just after christmas( ok some crowds were poor but compared to the playoffs now, positively healthyseason still running,challenge cup(played on regular basis} end of season run in(promotion and relegation ,bloomin 4 up 4 down lol) premership playoffs...end of season tour down under or even a touring sideover here playing for 2 -3 months against club sides...........now does all these not make for a more fun season


Instead you get told you can't play in this league or that league

You can't spend to improve your team,your handicapped by a salary cap[how do you fund a team on 150k?)

Then people say the challenge cup is pointless as the lower leagues get murdered( I wonder why lol)

We are given a cup to play amongst ourselves,and now a pointless play off system

We now play less home games than ever in history so how do we generate money?????

On the international front we don't tour? why? as all the players are full time so don't need to ask there bosses for time off as in the bad old days????


So you saying dumping a club in wales is progress,lets give the jocks one as well and a irish one and remove three more english clubs......so how do we produce players for england???????


Just imagine if the sky money had been spread over all the clubs over the last 13 years or so,instead give it to andrew johns and any other old crock to limp over here


whoopie doo

Spot on Jesus - agree tottally.

The crowds have been shocking IMHO

Great post jesus,agree with everything you have wrote,so that must make me a flacapper

Bring back David Oxley, I say!

Well at least he was better than todays supremo......

He could even organise tours and even the odd[failed expansion team..kent...scarbrough...failed welsh team etc

I was under the impression that its the heartland clubs that are generating poor crowds in the playoffs, as always this somehow gets blamed on Catalan and Celtic. If the Wakefield-Catalan fixture had taken place in Perpignan the crowd could have been twice what it was. I dont think its beyond the pale to suggest that a Celtic home playoff game would have beaten 4,000 either.
If clubs that have been around for a century can't establish a decent fan base or build a half decent ground then i'd say theres something wrong with the way the club is being run rather than the game itself.

Sorry not commenting on all that. Sounds like you have forgotten where the game was before Sky.
Its quicker just to say you prefer how it was prior to 1996, and you don't want expansion.
With this fixed in your head how will you ever take on board new ideas to keep the game alive at professional level.
RU and football dwarfs what the RFL take in.

I think what you say isn't totally true. The gates aren't great, but I think further back in the thread gave an indication of the possible whys. Top 6 should have been retained to give that achievement some prestige. This top 8 thing is too much......a team qualified by losing more than they won for example. The league is only 14 clubs. How many clubs get the 2nd chance this time round ? Its silly to say the least. I'm not saying it wasn't worth trying, but hopefully it will be binned for next season.
2 clubs out of 10 will get promoted from C1 to the Championship - again taking away the prestige of promotion by putting 20% of clubs up.
Fans aren't stupid, especially when their season ticket won't cover the game.

Nice dodge



How or what are these new ideas you believe the rfl are trying?

Less games? right less money

Spreading the game to ????????? whilst clubs go under or now attract crowds comparable with the top amatuer teams

Oh I forget what great advances have we made on the international front???



So come on leigh leigh....list me the benifits the game as had whilst under sky

Please show us the advances the sport as made in this country under it please

I've listed the downfall...I just want one of you believers to convince us its for the best...over to you

Rome wasn't built in a day as I said further back. Where have I said the game has made it ?
In 1895 the Northern Union was formed. What a brave decision that was, and how grateful we are that they did what they did.
To also get that decision that was made rubber stamped 100 years later by RU when they finally admitted we was right after all by becoming professional too.
Only problem was while RL was picking off Unions best players while they was just an amateur game before, they would then have to fend Union off our players backed by much more money than league. Good job we moved to summer and Sky came to the rescue at perfect time.
Its very easy now to just dismiss Skys contribution to the game. Its also very easy to look back at 80's/90's fondly and think we should go back to how it was, and forget what was round the corner.

LL, what was round the corner?

A rosey future built on competitive Ashes series, record test gates and a product that Sky wanted to get a return on.

No wonder the play off gates are down.
It took Dave Woods 5 mins to explain it last night on BBC2, And after all the explaining everyone in our pub said - so how does the playoffs work in SL this year

In summer season yes. Not a winter sport as they had that covered. I have been to lots of tests in SL era, and the atmosphere have been great - Elland Road/JJB, Even against NZ the atmosphere was cracking and grounds full.
But unfortunately GB (or England) now just build our hopes up and then do the usual. Which are having a big effect on gates now
But there isn't a quick fix to this. Glory-fying an era gone by isn't something to learn from because the sporting landscape has changed beyond recognision to them days.

As to Ad's comment about what is round the corner, just read my post again.

Crowds like 70000 at Wembley and sell outs at OT and Elland Rd??

Face it more people watched RL pre SL and test gates were much higher. The biggest obstacle facing us was to go FT to compete fully with the Convicts. Most sports were starting to benefit from payt tv (Sky) and so for Sky to court RL was an obvious choice, and one which gives them the best return per viewer of all the majors still.

For all the new fans at Bradford, more were lost at Fax, Keighley, Batley, Dewsbury, Oldham, Rochdale, Swinton, York, Barrow, Workington, Whitehaven, Widnes, Fev and until recently HKR.

We had sell out at Elland Road a few years ago - the best pre game atmosphere I can remember being part of for RL international. It was down hill after the whistle went of course. The fans are still there for when we do finally get the upperhand. The RL spirit for the big occassion has been a long time tradition with the GF and CC getting supported by the neutrals as well as the finalists. When the big day happens we will fill Wembley again.
I am glad you recognise the significants of Sky to our game. That was mainly my point. Take sky away from our history and the game would be in a bad state with Union benefitting.
Regarding losing fans - how many did we lose chasing the holy grail, and when getting there failing to compete ? We have never recovered since and have been going backwards - and still we want to be considered for 2012 even though we are poor at the moment at the level we are at.

Apologies LL, perhpas I wasn't clear. It was this bit I meant. Was, not is.



What was round the corner before Sky came along? I've looked but I don't think you have said.

With your history I never know if you are just being difficult and sarcastic tbh

But my post was aimed originally at "jesus-is-coming" (icon_lol.gif great user name)
stating :

The around the corner bit was this which was in the same post - I didn't want to type it out again thats why I said read again, but I have now anyway :

To say Sky have not added to our game is just strange thing to say.

I dont try to be difficult or sarcastic, if you can't answer a simple question or have a discussion without sulking then thats your issue.

You made it seem like the game was at deaths door pre Sky. Whilst they may have added a lot, take a few minutes to look at the balance sheets of the clubs and tell me the game is healthier now than it was in the mid 90's.

We're nowhere nearer beating the Aussies and have not produced one world class half back despite being fully pro for the best part of 15 years and tens of millions of pounds going through the clubs coffers.

Stadia have not improved unless they've been provided by others, and the quality of rugby is no better than it was back then. Watch some of Freds videos and see. I'll admit its a different approach and the players are fitter but as a spectical I honestly don't think its any better.

In my lifetime, the best performance by a country mile from a GB team against the Aussies was in Sydney in 88. We have not come anywhere near matching it. Nor have we produced players like Hanley, Edwards, Connolly, Myler, Woods, Lydon.

The game has to evolve I agree but it wasn't as bad as people think it was and certainly not saved by Sky.

Despite bringing prosperity to players pockets, what Sky have also done is put the game at risk. If they pulled out the game as we know it would be in a far worse state than it ever has.

British (English) Rugby League is struggling, why all the 'tampering' with our fantastic sport every season then. The RFL only ever come out with 'possitives' within our game, and rightly so, but the reality is so much different. It's a 'minority' sport, but some folk at RL HQ, are living in dreamland, ambition is fine, but a little reality wouldn't go a miss.
Swinton and Bramley are just as important as Catalans & The Welsh Crusaders.

This statement sums up everything i believe about the current state of the game.

RFL Dreamers take note.

Around the corner was at first having a fence around your pitch, later it was paying players, then terracing, then stands, then floodlights, then TV, then 2 divisions, then 6 tackles, etc

Around the corner was how all mainline sports have benefitted from the advent of subscription tv, its just that RL doesnt know its value and undersells the product allowing RU to oversell its.

In todays world we cant compete with RU, we can offer alternatives and grow from a genuine powerbase instead of throwing money into the wind called expansion hoping some will stick.

Heres a RL blueprint, central contracts for the top 50 players paid from the Sky deal (based upon individuals worth eg current £100k, emerging £50k) those players are then restricted on games played and attend regular GB training sessions. 2 divisions of 10 FT clubs with one up one down, no more than 2 non gb/France players at each club.

So apart from saving wigan as they had gone to the wall that summer,what other reason have we to thank sky for ?????

Great I can watch every match nearly every weekend but to be honest since the franchise nonsense I watch less and less super league action the only game I now watch is the national league game on a thursday.

This being the league that sky pay nothing too but own the rights to ??? figure that one out



The coming month is the big test for rl in this country,a 3/4 full old traffold and a half full 4 nations is the begining of the end to franchise in this country as the fans will vote one way or another on how the game is currently being run

I was going to give the tests a miss this year ,first time in god knows when,got talked into going to the piedome over a pint at the weekend.


Falling crowds and a dwindling tv audiance this year does not bode well...but as long as we can only spend 150k on players this year everything is ok

money saved