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To be honest I don't think its a unique problem for LSV.
All modern day stadia are soulless-four boxes on each side-built to the same minimalist formula affairs - the only difference being the colour of the seat plastic.
Halton, HJ, LSV - all pretty much the same basic formula really.
As long as the game itself is improving and the product we are all there for is VFM (guffaw) I'm not bothered - LSV as a facility was always going to be function over form!
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| Quote ="Starbug"In some respects the guy is right , if we are to survive on people just wanting to come to the ground 15 minutes before kick off and go home straight after then our future could be bleak
The whole ' ethos ' of new stadia is that they are ' working ' for you 7 days a week
Unfortunatley we are not in that position as the new stadium costs us more money 7 days a week than we were making in Hilton park
We have around 15 days a year to make enough money to run a semi professional RL team in the second tier of the sport
Unless we can get over 4,000 paying spectators into the ground on those 15 days we will always be in a position of requiring ' extra ' financial input
We cannot just rely on the 80 minutes of RL to bring that number of people in , as you cannot control what happens on the pitch , nobody can
We have to make the whole match day experience good enough that people are willing to come even if the product on the pitch doesn't always come up to people's expectations
This person sounds like he enjoyed the social part of the day as much as the game itself , I would guess there are a lot more like him
Lose them at our peril
 '"
That's all that 'I' and many more people want. In over fifty years of attending HP the match was the only important activity, for me,I did a little sponsering and that was fine and, that facilty is 'still' available at the LSV except, it is in much better surroundings  |
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| Quote ="Scarramanga"To be honest I don't think its a unique problem for LSV.
All modern day stadia are soulless-four boxes on each side-built to the same minimalist formula affairs - the only difference being the colour of the seat plastic.
Halton, HJ, LSV - all pretty much the same basic formula really.
As long as the game itself is improving and the product we are all there for is VFM (guffaw) I'm not bothered - LSV as a facility was always going to be function over form!'"
The big difference for us is that we dont own the ground,at the moment. |
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| Quote ="The Watcher"The big difference for us is that we dont own the ground,at the moment.'"
Of course 
And I think this point helps the sterile (debatable) feel. |
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We didn't 'own' Hilton Park either, its not the owning its the running' of it that matters.
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| Quote ="Starbug"That is my point we cant , so yes we have the use of a nice shiney new stadium , but it is of no benifit to us at all
In all honesty we would have been better off at Hilton Park trying to get grant funding to improve and develop
So Sorry Mr Jones and Mr Barton but to tell the truth you havent done us a favour , in fact unless things change you might just end up finishing us off
'"
Who does actually own LSV stadium ? I thought Centurions was a part owner (Genesis too ??), Council......So surely as council tax payers and the Centurions having a stake then we have a say in how it runs.
If the club can't afford to use the stadium then why is this the case ? The club have to accept a responsibility for this too. Crowds aren't happening etc, and why is it ?
I remember Keith Freer (??) turning up for LISA meeting (when the Trust idea was presented) and stating he had just come back from signing a contract for the stadium. What was that contract about - as surely he wouldn't have signed it with "rent to be advised later" or something. Or did I not hear him correctly on this.
There has been moaning about it not feeling like home, with no Centurions signs and stuff hung around - then we find out club never asked as an example.
As for the stadium finishing us off (blame someone else syndrome) then again we have had our destiny in our own hands. The stadium was an opportunity....are we missing it? Or was all our eggs in "the getting into SL" basket
There was no great atmosphere at HP, most of the time.
Widnes/Warrington stadiums are similar to our "souless" one. So why have the atmosphere been so good in our trips there. Helps having away fans, but tbh as you say further back we need bigger gates to create that atmosphere to start with.
Blaming LSV for things like this won't solve our problems.
If it was possible to organise and pay for I would once and for all allow us all to see how much the town want the Centurions - by having a one off free entry to all (:winkicon_smile.gif. Won't happen without someone footing the bill but would give us an idea of where we are at etc
ps This isn't having a pop at the club, as I don't do that. Its more criticism  |
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| Quote ="Leeeigh Leeeigh":19cbqrb1Who does actually own LSV stadium ? I thought Centurions was a part owner (Genesis too ??), Council......So surely as council tax payers and the Centurions having a stake then we have a say in how it runs.
If the club can't afford to use the stadium then why is this the case ? The club have to accept a responsibility for this too. Crowds aren't happening etc, and why is it ?
I remember Keith Freer (??) turning up for LISA meeting (when the Trust idea was presented) and stating he had just come back from signing a contract for the stadium. [size=150:19cbqrb11[/size:19cbqrb1 :19cbqrb1What was that contract about - as surely he wouldn't have signed it with "rent to be advised later" or something:19cbqrb1. Or did I not hear him correctly on this.
There has been moaning about it not feeling like home, with no Centurions signs and stuff hung around - then we find out club never asked as an example.
As for the stadium finishing us off [size=150:19cbqrb12[/size:19cbqrb1(blame someone else syndrome) then again we have had our destiny in our own hands. [size=150:19cbqrb13[/size:19cbqrb1:19cbqrb1 The stadium was an opportunity....are we missing it?:19cbqrb1 Or was all our eggs in "the getting into SL" basket
There was no great atmosphere at HP, most of the time.
Widnes/Warrington stadiums are similar to our "souless" one. So why have the atmosphere been so good in our trips there. [size=150:19cbqrb14[/size:19cbqrb1:19cbqrb1 Helps having away fans, but tbh as you say further back we need bigger gates to create that atmosphere to start with.:19cbqrb1[size=150:19cbqrb15[/size:19cbqrb1B:19cbqrb1laming LSV for things like this won't solve our problems. :19cbqrb1If it was possible to organise and pay for I would once and for all allow us all to see how much the town want the Centurions [size=150:19cbqrb16[/size:19cbqrb1b by having a one off free entry to all (:winkicon_smile.gif. Won't happen without someone footing the bill but would give us an idea of where we are at etc
ps This isn't having a pop at the club, as I don't do that. Its more criticism
'" from the start , I hate architects with a vengance , they are the biggest load of to**ers you can find
6 It wouldn't work , you know it I know it , far too simple to expect people to now just turn up , it might have worked for the first game , too late now
Unfortunatley it would seem that some people thought that " if we build it they will come " , that only happens in films |
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| Quote ="Starbug"1 Yes , that is basically what happened
2 Not actually blaming them , just pointing out that it is not viable the way it is being run cost wise
3 Yes it is/was an opportunity [ my words posted many times in the last 2 years one that has/is being wasted
4 Correct many businesses give out samples of what they sell to entice people to buy
5 Also correct but see 4 above , if it is made too difficult to let people sample they wont bother , the whole site has been badly designed and planned [ no doubt some people have been very well paid for this from the start , I hate architects with a vengance , they are the biggest load of to**ers you can find
6 It wouldn't work , you know it I know it , far too simple to expect people to now just turn up , it might have worked for the first game , too late now
Unfortunatley it would seem that some people thought that " if we build it they will come " , that only happens in films
'"
1. Did we blindly sign a contract not knowing what cost was involved to play there ? also relevent to your point 2.
3. Who wasted this opportunity ? answering without just blaming LSV costs tho because we seem to have left ourselves open on that score.
4. Giving free samples out at whos cost tho ? We would need a sponser or something to do this really. Should the Leigh council tax payer have foot the bill for this ? This is where I am confused about who owns it. |
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| Quote ="Leeeigh Leeeigh"1. Did we blindly sign a contract not knowing what cost was involved to play there ? also relevent to your point 2.
3. Who wasted this opportunity ? answering without just blaming LSV costs tho because we seem to have left ourselves open on that score.
4. Giving free samples out at whos cost tho ? We would need a sponser or something to do this really. Should the Leigh council tax payer have foot the bill for this ? This is where I am confused about who owns it.'"
As Fred said , not who owns it , it's who runs it
Probably a committee , as we know , very few things run by committee are ever very successful |
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this whole 'who owns the stadium/village' is becoming another de ja vu thread on here. its well documented who owns it
www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Enviro ... illage.htm
However that list has changed due to certain circumstances.
The LSV stadium company runs it but because the project stalled at the last minute the council bailed it out, and there the problems began as it then had to turn into a 'cash cow' so that the rate payers of the borough get their money back, and the present LSV management was put in place.
Pray suggest what alternative Leigh Centurions had? Grundy Hill were making 'selling noises' for the last few years.
Free samples? no such animal, all these 'free entries' still need to be 'policed' and that costs money, now suggest who pays, don't mention sponsorship as in these hard financial times sponsorship budgets in business are down, my own for example to ZERO so I am forced to use my own which I have put aside for retirement to honour my this year sponsorship promises, of next year??? who knows but at this stage NIL and I think I will not be alone, that is the financial reality not only in a business like mine but in the 'blue chip' companies also (just take a look around your local high street if I'm not to be believed)..
Leigh Centurions being a partner in the LSV of which I'm informed Leigh Genises no longer are, get a reduction in rental terms. but unfortunately the 'terms' are based on the other stadium in the borough, something that whilst unfair and unrealistic has been put into place, and talks go on at length but without any sort of conciliation as the LSV management appear to be unbendingI'm sure if you ask Mr Chairman who's own arguments with the LSV company are 'legendary' he will lessen your confusion.
My own question to the powers that be was that we (the people of Leigh) were promised a debt free sports village, is that now still the case?
Its all a 'merry-go-round' without the fun of the fair.  |
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this whole 'who owns the stadium/village' is becoming another de ja vu thread on here. its well documented who owns it
www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Enviro ... illage.htm
However that list has changed due to certain circumstances.
The LSV stadium company runs it but because the project stalled at the last minute the council bailed it out, and there the problems began as it then had to turn into a 'cash cow' so that the rate payers of the borough get their money back, and the present LSV management was put in place.
Pray suggest what alternative Leigh Centurions had? Grundy Hill were making 'selling noises' for the last few years.
Free samples? no such animal, all these 'free entries' still need to be 'policed' and that costs money, now suggest who pays, don't mention sponsorship as in these hard financial times sponsorship budgets in business are down, my own for example to ZERO so I am forced to use my own which I have put aside for retirement to honour my this year sponsorship promises, of next year??? who knows but at this stage NIL and I think I will not be alone, that is the financial reality not only in a business like mine but in the 'blue chip' companies also (just take a look around your local high street if I'm not to be believed)..
Leigh Centurions being a partner in the LSV of which I'm informed Leigh Genises no longer are, get a reduction in rental terms. but unfortunately the 'terms' are based on the other stadium in the borough, something that whilst unfair and unrealistic has been put into place, and talks go on at length but without any sort of conciliation as the LSV management appear to be unbendingI'm sure if you ask Mr Chairman who's own arguments with the LSV company are 'legendary' he will lessen your confusion.
My own question to the powers that be was that we (the people of Leigh) were promised a debt free sports village, is that now still the case?
Its all a 'merry-go-round' without the fun of the fair. | |
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| Club Owner | 33944 | No
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Quote ="imleythbenter"this whole 'who owns the stadium/village' is becoming another de ja vu thread on here. its well documented who owns it
www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Enviro ... illage.htm
However that list has changed due to certain circumstances.
The LSV stadium company runs it but because the project stalled at the last minute the council bailed it out, and there the problems began as it then had to turn into a 'cash cow' so that the rate payers of the borough get their money back, and the present LSV management was put in place.
Pray suggest what alternative Leigh Centurions had? Grundy Hill were making 'selling noises' for the last few years.
Free samples? no such animal, all these 'free entries' still need to be 'policed' and that costs money, now suggest who pays, don't mention sponsorship as in these hard financial times sponsorship budgets in business are down, my own for example to ZERO so I am forced to use my own which I have put aside for retirement to honour my this year sponsorship promises, of next year??? who knows but at this stage NIL and I think I will not be alone, that is the financial reality not only in a business like mine but in the 'blue chip' companies also (just take a look around your local high street if I'm not to be believed)..
Leigh Centurions being a partner in the LSV of which I'm informed Leigh Genises no longer are, get a reduction in rental terms. but unfortunately the 'terms' are based on the other stadium in the borough, something that whilst unfair and unrealistic has been put into place, and talks go on at length but without any sort of conciliation as the LSV management appear to be unbendingI'm sure if you ask Mr Chairman who's own arguments with the LSV company are 'legendary' he will lessen your confusion.
My own question to the powers that be was that we (the people of Leigh) were promised a debt free sports village, is that now still the case?
Its all a 'merry-go-round' without the fun of the fair.
'"
Debt free , yes , from a having a mortgage on the place point of view
But from a cost of running point of view no , surely there are architects that can design buildings that do not require 24 hour security
The cost alone of having that on site must be close to 100 K per year , then add on 8/9 admin staff , 4/5 ground staff
Basically if every bit of spare land was built on either rented or sold and every inch of office space leased out they might get close to paying half the ' running costs '
But they arent and they wont be , partly because of the financial situation but also because they were totally unrealistic targets
They have seen massive sponsorship deals signed at football and RU grounds and seriously expected someone to stump up the same to put their name on the LSV
Totally unrealistic |
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Quote ="imleythbenter"this whole 'who owns the stadium/village' is becoming another de ja vu thread on here. its well documented who owns it
www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Enviro ... illage.htm
However that list has changed due to certain circumstances.
The LSV stadium company runs it but because the project stalled at the last minute the council bailed it out, and there the problems began as it then had to turn into a 'cash cow' so that the rate payers of the borough get their money back, and the present LSV management was put in place.
Pray suggest what alternative Leigh Centurions had? Grundy Hill were making 'selling noises' for the last few years.
Free samples? no such animal, all these 'free entries' still need to be 'policed' and that costs money, now suggest who pays, don't mention sponsorship as in these hard financial times sponsorship budgets in business are down, my own for example to ZERO so I am forced to use my own which I have put aside for retirement to honour my this year sponsorship promises, of next year??? who knows but at this stage NIL and I think I will not be alone, that is the financial reality not only in a business like mine but in the 'blue chip' companies also (just take a look around your local high street if I'm not to be believed)..
Leigh Centurions being a partner in the LSV of which I'm informed Leigh Genises no longer are, get a reduction in rental terms. but unfortunately the 'terms' are based on the other stadium in the borough, something that whilst unfair and unrealistic has been put into place, and talks go on at length but without any sort of conciliation as the LSV management appear to be unbendingI'm sure if you ask Mr Chairman who's own arguments with the LSV company are 'legendary' he will lessen your confusion.
My own question to the powers that be was that we (the people of Leigh) were promised a debt free sports village, is that now still the case?
Its all a 'merry-go-round' without the fun of the fair.
'"
Debt free , yes , from a having a mortgage on the place point of view
But from a cost of running point of view no , surely there are architects that can design buildings that do not require 24 hour security
The cost alone of having that on site must be close to 100 K per year , then add on 8/9 admin staff , 4/5 ground staff
Basically if every bit of spare land was built on either rented or sold and every inch of office space leased out they might get close to paying half the ' running costs '
But they arent and they wont be , partly because of the financial situation but also because they were totally unrealistic targets
They have seen massive sponsorship deals signed at football and RU grounds and seriously expected someone to stump up the same to put their name on the LSV
Totally unrealistic | |
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| International Board Member | 7523 | No
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Quote ="imleythbenter"this whole 'who owns the stadium/village' is becoming another de ja vu thread on here. its well documented who owns it
www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Enviro ... illage.htm
However that list has changed due to certain circumstances.
The LSV stadium company runs it but because the project stalled at the last minute the council bailed it out, and there the problems began as it then had to turn into a 'cash cow' so that the rate payers of the borough get their money back, and the present LSV management was put in place.
Pray suggest what alternative Leigh Centurions had? Grundy Hill were making 'selling noises' for the last few years.
Free samples? no such animal, all these 'free entries' still need to be 'policed' and that costs money, now suggest who pays, don't mention sponsorship as in these hard financial times sponsorship budgets in business are down, my own for example to ZERO so I am forced to use my own which I have put aside for retirement to honour my this year sponsorship promises, of next year??? who knows but at this stage NIL and I think I will not be alone, that is the financial reality not only in a business like mine but in the 'blue chip' companies also (just take a look around your local high street if I'm not to be believed)..
Leigh Centurions being a partner in the LSV of which I'm informed Leigh Genises no longer are, get a reduction in rental terms. but unfortunately the 'terms' are based on the other stadium in the borough, something that whilst unfair and unrealistic has been put into place, and talks go on at length but without any sort of conciliation as the LSV management appear to be unbendingI'm sure if you ask Mr Chairman who's own arguments with the LSV company are 'legendary' he will lessen your confusion.
My own question to the powers that be was that we (the people of Leigh) were promised a debt free sports village, is that now still the case?
Its all a 'merry-go-round' without the fun of the fair.
'"
Thanks for this.
Still unsure about the ownership (or "partners"icon_wink.gif, maybe this will be more clear when the AGM is announced and they are all together.
Also not sure that Grundy Hill "'selling noises' for the last few years" is a gun to our heads to sign anything to use new stadium no matter what contract says IMO. |
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Quote ="imleythbenter"this whole 'who owns the stadium/village' is becoming another de ja vu thread on here. its well documented who owns it
www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Enviro ... illage.htm
However that list has changed due to certain circumstances.
The LSV stadium company runs it but because the project stalled at the last minute the council bailed it out, and there the problems began as it then had to turn into a 'cash cow' so that the rate payers of the borough get their money back, and the present LSV management was put in place.
Pray suggest what alternative Leigh Centurions had? Grundy Hill were making 'selling noises' for the last few years.
Free samples? no such animal, all these 'free entries' still need to be 'policed' and that costs money, now suggest who pays, don't mention sponsorship as in these hard financial times sponsorship budgets in business are down, my own for example to ZERO so I am forced to use my own which I have put aside for retirement to honour my this year sponsorship promises, of next year??? who knows but at this stage NIL and I think I will not be alone, that is the financial reality not only in a business like mine but in the 'blue chip' companies also (just take a look around your local high street if I'm not to be believed)..
Leigh Centurions being a partner in the LSV of which I'm informed Leigh Genises no longer are, get a reduction in rental terms. but unfortunately the 'terms' are based on the other stadium in the borough, something that whilst unfair and unrealistic has been put into place, and talks go on at length but without any sort of conciliation as the LSV management appear to be unbendingI'm sure if you ask Mr Chairman who's own arguments with the LSV company are 'legendary' he will lessen your confusion.
My own question to the powers that be was that we (the people of Leigh) were promised a debt free sports village, is that now still the case?
Its all a 'merry-go-round' without the fun of the fair.
'"
Thanks for this.
Still unsure about the ownership (or "partners"icon_wink.gif, maybe this will be more clear when the AGM is announced and they are all together.
Also not sure that Grundy Hill "'selling noises' for the last few years" is a gun to our heads to sign anything to use new stadium no matter what contract says IMO. | |
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| Club Owner | 33944 | No
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| Quote ="Leeeigh Leeeigh"Thanks for this.
Still unsure about the ownership (or "partners"icon_wink.gif, maybe this will be more clear when the AGM is announced and they are all together.
Also not sure that Grundy Hill "'selling noises' for the last few years" is a gun to our heads to sign anything to use new stadium no matter what contract says IMO.'"
A gun was put to our heads , but not by Grundy Hill
It was the council , they made it quite plain that if we did not agree to sign up blind they would make things very difficult for us to continue at Hilton Park with regards H and S and safety certificates |
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| Quote ="Starbug"A gun was put to our heads , but not by Grundy Hill
It was the council , they made it quite plain that if we did not agree to sign up blind they would make things very difficult for us to continue at Hilton Park with regards H and S and safety certificates'"
What you are basically saying is we had no say in whether we play at new stadium or not and would be charged whatever, and had no control over our decision making regarding stadium.
I'm sure MP for Leigh and councilors would not want to lose votes on something like this if brought to their attention via media etc.
What you are basically saying is we had no say in whether we play at new stadium or not and would be charged whatever, and had no control over our decision making regarding stadium.
I think we thought the stadium was last piece of jigsaw for admittance to SL. |
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| International Chairman | 25757 | No
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| May 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Feb 2021 | Feb 2021 | LINK |
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It was never the last piece only the first, I am and always have been anti-LSV, not because of the stadium or the LSV company but because IMO it will be another nail in the coffin of Leigh RFC, realistically we cant afford to play and have office space at the LSV unless the council step in and have realistic prices, I was in on a conversation with Alan and our Dave with a certain head coach of a Champ 1 team and he was horrified at what we are rumoured to be paying and his teams stadium is bigger than ours, granted their average crowd is far less than ours too.
Crilly Park with in 5 years, if we are still around (In fact if RL is still around)
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 25757 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| May 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2021 | Feb 2021 | LINK |
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Just an aside I was told that the LSV partners have never met nor do they plan to.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 7523 | No
Team
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jul 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Oct 2017 | Oct 2017 | LINK |
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| Quote ="FredParky"Just an aside I was told that the LSV partners have never met nor do they plan to.'"
Thats what is still confusing to me regarding ownership. of the stadium.
Suppose we all had a collection and made an offer to buy. Who do we make offer to ?
Also point I am trying to make is a couple of years ago it was popular opinion (and still is among some) that the stadium would get us in SL. Did we sign for the stadium (no matter what the cost was) because we thought we would get in, and no thought on if we didn't as such. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 25757 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| May 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2021 | Feb 2021 | LINK |
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No choice re moving from HP (see Starbugs post) and the only other alternative was doing a Swinton, now that would have been the end.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 3495 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Aug 2006 | 18 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2014 | Dec 2014 | LINK |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 3495 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Aug 2006 | 18 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2014 | Dec 2014 | LINK |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Owner | 33944 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Mar 2016 | Mar 2016 | LINK |
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Well only another £ 600 per week to find to clear his/her salary
Just what exactly is this person going to ' sell ' to bring £ 600 plus in to the place ?
Or another pointless admin job paid for by you and me ?
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Well only another £ 600 per week to find to clear his/her salary
Just what exactly is this person going to ' sell ' to bring £ 600 plus in to the place ?
Or another pointless admin job paid for by you and me ?
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Owner | 33944 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Mar 2016 | Mar 2016 | LINK |
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The ' What we do ' one is good too
Eventually when they find out they will tell us
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The ' What we do ' one is good too
Eventually when they find out they will tell us
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 16601 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Aug 2002 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Mar 2024 | Nov 2023 | LINK |
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Good salespeople are an investment, and normally cost upwards of £80k
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 1532 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2009 | 16 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2019 | Nov 2017 | LINK |
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| Quote ="-VIKINGMAN-"Roy talks sense.'"
unlike VIKINGMAN |
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'"
'"
