But try and name those 4 clubs in this league and there are going to be some noticeable exceptions - a team missing out on the play-offs every couple of years will increase the significance and highlight the achievement when they do manage to make the cut.

I have posted once on the VT in the last 6 months. I don't post on here much nowadays either. Though I do like to read the actual rugby threads - because we may have some of biggest moaners in the game but we also have some of most knowledgeable too. And of course we all may have differing opinions but we all want Leigh to be the best

Are those benifits set by the RFL , or are they the result of decades of work by many people from our towns

You cannot artificially ' even things up ' , it is impossible , to even try is madness

It takes time , lots of it , there is no easy fix that does not impound upon the existing clubs , but as I said earlier , the RFL have no interest in those clubs

We know we cannot replicate what we have in football , perhaps we shouldn't want to as they have their own problems

The problem is not hard to find , it is money , or the lack of it

The RFL know this and are trying to follow the RU ' model ' of building an International money making structure

Which in itself is fine , but in the meantime they are neglecting the heartland clubs outside SL , their efforts so far to build up the competitions are laughable , they have no idea's other than the ones they are trying in SL

A foreign trip and a poor relation MM weekend in Blackpool

As I have posted on other boards , it is probably now time to look at what benifits the TV deal has produced if any

Unfortunatley the RFL in their quest for ' Positivity at all times ' will say it has been a great success and sign us up again for another 3/4 years on the same deal

I agree with your top 4 tbh. Maybe that is a change we need now to help the comp.

To tell the truth I now care more about the success of the competition and the survival of its clubs than the individual success of Leigh in it

I no longer look down on any club , my posts on the match forecasts of ' I'll settle for a bonus point ' are not jokes , Every team in our competition are more than capable of beating any other on any given day , its just a pity more people from the towns where these clubs are situated dont turn up to watch it

That is where the RFL should be concentrating their resources

Without a doubt , if something is too easy to get it has little value

Why should that have any bearing on the makeup of the top tier of football in this country , maybe you are too young but I remember Burnley being in the top flight of English football , along with Blackpool and Huddersfield

So yes the Geordies will be visiting Shorpe and Doncaster next season , how good will that be for those clubs

But what having Burnley in the premiership will do is give hope to all those other clubs of similar size , that one day their time might just come again

Without that hope you have nothing

Why do some (quite a lot) Leigh fans and even our CEO claim Miners and Easts as our doing ?
If a area is playing RL like south Wales and they are doing it the "hard way" like Skolars. Do you seriously think they will get anywhere ? The salary cap for starters is against them. They don't have SL player castoffs and top Amateur clubs on their doorstep etc etc. They will never gain any interest down there - again its obvious so I assume you know this. So yes you do have to even things out if they have the money and ambition to progress then don't hinder them.
The trip to Europe and MM type event in Blackpool makes a change than the normal season we are used to. So credit IMO should be given here.
Also simple Yes/No question - Is it better to have 2 top teams in areas covering say x + y number of people, than 2 top teams covering just x number of people ? As a developing sport this has to be a aim.

See bottom of my post. I have always been Pro P&R in a proper leagues comp.

But P&R has its flaws. If you don't see that then fair enough. Newcastle staying up would have been a complete overhaul and they would most likely be chasing top 10 at least - with financial clout they have.
Burnley on the other hand will struggle big time. Thats the point I am making. A massive club goes down and a West Brom/Boro type club replaces them.

I was not claiming the hard work done at East's or Miners as anything other than what it is , the people of this town wanting to play the sport and see the youngsters of the town also play the sport


As long as you attempt to ' Even things out ' it will never work , as I said previously it is impossible , at what stage is even ? , more money ? How much ? , more overseas players ? , how many ? , having one team excempt from relegation ?

It is like having one team playing with more players than another from the start , it cannot work

I would have no ,problem if the RFL want to tip millions into junior development in new area's , fine , as long as they declare what they are doing and the long term benifits it will bring

As an answer to your question , X and Y

Answer me this , is it better to have a league full of clubs that can support themselves than a bigger league full of clubs on the verge of banckruptcy ?

Will their fans care , you seem to be forgetting we are proffessional sport , now if all you want is a glorified computer game watched on TV then fine , but we are a sport , a proffessional sport built on the emotions of the people that attend the matches

Perhaps its because the RFL and the loons running it decided to call it "The Championship"

You don't have any clubs put in SL on the verge of being bankrupt.

OK Celtic are not allowed Aussies, and have to abide by Salary cap. I have asked this question a long time ago and nobody could answer it then either.
How can a chairman with loads of money get his club in SL as quickly as possible? He doesn't want to hang around, because he has the clout. Football chairmen can spend and buy success etc.
He wants to create interest in the area, and has big plans. If its not fair to even things out, how do RFL help them to compete against rules that are against this new club?.

But that's exactly the short-term planning that will cause them big problems should Mr Samuel ride off in to the sunset, as they simply didn't have enough time away from the pressures of Super League to build up their both their playing base and supporter base. In my mind, the only time they'd have been truly ready for promotion would be when they could compete on a level pegging with the Championship clubs, as otherwise it's nothing more than an artificial rise.

Its a professional sport alright. But in owden days a team could be relegated, then promoted, then champions in 3 seasons. It was possible. Because of money involved now its all different and sets clubs back years.
City would be relegated and in serious finacial trouble had it not been for us winning the biggest lottery in the world.
Being a Man U fan you would never understand what the feeling is like being 2-0 down in Div 2 playoff with a couple of mins to go. Believe you me, as a loyal fan it was heartbreaking knowing another season playing against clubs that in reality we shouldn't be.
But its sport as you say and you accept it in a proper tiered league system in football.
But P&R in football is flawed.

In 2006 we had a strong team on paper - on field a half decent coach would be able to get his team to rip us apart, Thornton showed it


The win v Hull KR was a massive "shock result" no doubting that, did we play them off the part or did they think all they had to do was turn up & win



Never been a fan of the palyoffs, belittles the week in week out league competition.
Leigh will largely make the championship playoffs as the championship will never have that many strong teams - just like SL will never be a strong competition in terms of playing strength.

The RFL made the disgusting decision scrap P & R (and ambition and to award failure.....), time will tell if it works, so far IMO its gain 10 fans in Bridgend, lose 10 fans in Whitehaven - its not expanding the game like you or I really want to see, its shipping figures around with towns and areas losing interest in RL whilst others gain it, true expansion is building up your league/ fanbase across the area's of the sport.

Whatever you may or may not think the Franchise system on field is currently not doing very well with 3 of the franchise clubs all sitting in a very lowly league position despite having had more of a head start than all promoted clubs.

They can't compete tho. Its impossible for them to, or would take decades. The very rules Leigh have to abide by are there for reasons that don't apply to a new club not in the heartlands.
In ideal world what you say should go, but if you was running the game would you have done this any different in same situation ?

Ask the same question of Mr Thomas at Leigh , how does he guarantee he gets Leigh into SL as quickly as possible , ie 2012 ?

I win the Euro Lottery next week , 50 Million , Can I guarantee that my money buys a SL spot in 2012 ?

I cannot , why ? because of the location of my club

Mr Samuels on the other hand asks the RFL what he needed to do to guarantee a SL place in 2009 , they told him exactly what he had to achieve , and they gave him the tools to achieve it

Not a problem with that

If they had stated that from the start

If we had had Mr Lewis make a statement back in 2006 " We intend to expand the SL competition into Wales , Mr Samuels has committed to finance this expansion and the Celtic Crusaders will take a 3 year Licence to play in SL in 2009 "

" We understand that some clubs will be unhappy with this but we feel that for the long term benefit of the sport we cannot miss this opportunity "

" The franchise system will cause upset to many fans and officials of clubs excluded , but we will make it our priority to help these clubs prosper in the competitions they are in and to genuinley make a success of these competitions "

I'd have lived with that , and personally I think so would many others

And how long do you stifle ambition of progressive clubs s whilst awaiting/hoping Newcastle to get upto speed or realise there potential ?

A drop down will bring them a chance to regroup, win a few games, build relationships up with lost/disgruntled fans and come back stronger - if unable,Tough.

The interest in Hull this season has been more than the interest in many other established clubs, I don't think its all bad , Wigan Athletic proved what can be done as did Fulham, if the door had been kept shut on Fulham to allow a sliding Leeds Utd to stay in we might not be looking forward to seeing a different British team in Europe next season.

IMO With 50 mill nad different CEO (:winkicon_smile.gif we would be in SL instead of Salford. A lot of neutrals said Leigh depended on the SL money more than the rest of clubs competing with us Salford/Celtic/Widnes - which truth be known is true



I agree with this and have said similar b4. The reasoning for Celtic being put in SL was laughable and embaressing. But their inclusing was the right decision that had to be made.

I spent a season watching Utd playing in the 2 nd division because we were not good enough to stay in the top division

I then spent around 13 years watching little relative success and it was only after I stopped going for financial reasons that the success came

Sorry but that is pure ' snobbery '

Sport is sport wether that is football , RL or anything you expect all the clubs to be playing to the same rules , City will be competing with Utd and all the others on a level playing field as far as the ' rules ' of those competitions

This is football of course which is not same when you see money involved. 30mill just for finishing last - its crazy money.
As I have said P&R is great for football for the interest involved, but because of the amount of money in the game now P&R is flawed.
Democracy is the correct way to go of course but that is flawed also especially when it comes down to the hard but necessary decisions against losing votes. This is for a different forum of course


Clubs like W1gan/Fulham/Hull will never win Premier League, and that goes for most of others. Money involved stifles progress. Champions League is damaging Prem, because now the top 4 are in every season it will take some miracle to change it. Because best players want to be in CL. City with all money they have still can't compete, but hopefully 5 years down the line we can. Sorry Bolton have no chance

You Utd fans don't know you are born. "relative success" is a trophy here and there - we dream of them



Also reference the snobbery, I would like to think that is untrue but maybe my posts didn't show me so well. But being from top flight big boys to the 3rd tier of football - now that is hard times. Also seeing our neighbours over the border win the treble when we are probable years away from even being in same league is a much harder pill to swallow than "relative success"

But should City be allowed to play in the premiership despite thier money

If this had happened a few years ago , say in the year 2000


Scary eh