In a word yes.

Ownership is a problem for me though in fairness if you look on companies house records for SCL and see all the different share holders who effectivley own the club yet are no longer Involved it puts people/ buisnesses off getting involved and committing funds in my opinion.

One thing is certain, a defeatist attitude will lead to defeat. A positive attitude may still lead to defeat but there is at least a possibility that it won't!

A history of failure does not guarantee future failure any more than a history of success guarantees future success.

Control what you can control, don't obsess about things you cannot.

Instead of finding 50 ways why something won't work, put your effort into finding just one way it will work.

............. and people who are negative and don't think it will work should stay well away.

Burying your head in the sand isnt the way to succeed either, only by being aware of potential problems will you have the answers to hand, if the odd realistic ( you might say negative ) post is enough to undermind or discourage a project like this, then it wasnt likely to succeed anyway

Starbug, I'd wager that a good percentage of your 31,395 posts have been of the "realistic" variety! I'm all for realism. For what it's worth, I am not a fan of the BeLeighve campaign itself - not that the slogan is wrong but the goal is wrong. We are defining ourselves by trying to reach a competition which we have little chance of reaching - what we want is for people to believe in what Leigh actually is - something that the town can be proud to support as they have done for the last century and more. Ultimately, the RFL cannot take that away from us.


But, back to realism, to use baseball parlance, I'd rather be struck out swinging than struck out watching. It's very easy to pass comment on every suggestion that is made or put into practice and wheel out advice here and there, some of which would probably read as quite contradictory if anyone had the patience to sit down and do a forensic analysis of it. LISA is a perfect example of what can be done over a lasting period of time, with lots of hard work of course, there is no substitute for that.

My own personal view is that the strategy has to be to gradually increase the touch points between the club and the people of Leigh and the surrounding areas so that it remains in the forefront of the individuals and collective mind. There has to be a much higher profile of the personalities and activities connected with the club, largely online on the website through social media. If Wayne Rooney has two bowel movements in one day it probably appears on MUTV.
Yet I know next to nothing about current Leigh RL. You don't need a multi-million dollar marketing campaign, you need to do the little things right, and lots of them.

This is comedy gold, you really have no idea of how a business works and are playing on the fears of those fans who also have no idea
I am a Director of a business employing thousands and turning over £125m, I do not vote on every decision just the critical ones when the majority vote becomes unanimous, wether I voted that way or not. I have ownership of a specific area and report on my achievement of targets, as we all do and guess what if the key areas of finance, ops and sales hit targets so does the business. We don't have commitee's we have leaders who take ownership and deliver results
I would give what I can afford to lose to anyone who has the capabilities and time to do that for our club, becAuse what we have isn't working

People should not confuse an honest opinion on something and a wish for something not to work/happen, but it seems anybody playing devils advocate is trying to damage the club

This again seems to be fans looking for the ' silver bullet ' that will transform the clubs future, it wont, once again the ownership is not the clubs problem , in fact it would probably set the club back even further

Are Leigh Centurions a business or a charity?

Its time to start operating like a business and less like a charity, and asking the existing fans for more money is what charities do

If anybody has reservations about the ownership that prevent them from potentially helping the club become a better business, then just contact the current shareholders and speak to them , I promise you they will not bite

Some will suggest that the club are unable to stand alone as a business and will always need unearned donation, I find that incredibly negative, but far too many want somebody else to pay for their entertainment

I firmly believe the club is capable of operating as a true business and will be more successful as a result

So who is the negative, and who is the positive around here?

I don't really know what the answer is .
however if every fan was a member of Lisa or the touchdown club ie 1500 x example £5 month that's £90000 some pay more then £5 so realistically it would be more like £130000 on top of what we earn through gate receipts , sponsorship etc, enough to have a self substainable club, LISA has proven it's self over the years, why fix something that isn't broke, just improve it , that's my opinion for what it's worth!

The club gave us the promised 1 share per £20000 put in , eventually the fans will own the club. Easy

The simple answer to that linda is you run it dont you? get on with it then.

Ste you make total sense when you leave your VT head on the VT,there nothing wrong with constructive critisism or pointing out were any new club is going to go wrong.Keep pointing these things out mate.just no negative for the sake of it as some are doing.

What was LISA's remit when it was set up?,
and is it still the same or has it changed in the last 18months?

Steve it is prudent to have cash just in case and to kick start strategies
Dick are you saying LISA never got the share promised? Also if everything worked we wouldn't have the same recurring cash crisis

Shareholders do not get to vote on Board decisions at all.

The key thing on which a shareholder votes is the [uelection of[/u the Board of Directors.

Other than that there are certain things (such as allotting new shares, changing auditors etc) which technically need a shareholder vote but for practical purposes the Board is given headroom to get on with these things without constantly reverting to shareholders.

If the shareholders disagree with the Board's strategy then they have the opportunity to vote them out at a General meeting (and there are very specific rules around how one can be called).

So in effect it is just like Vodafone, BP or Standard Chartered where thousands of shareholders approve the nomination of Board members and then let them get on with it!

By the way the offer to LISA of 1 share for every £20k donated would require over 3/4 of a million pounds (£750,000) to be put up before the fans would have "control" of the company!!!!!

I have read with interest this thread and just want to applaud Andy Mazey for his enthusiam despite the occassional negative thread. It is clear that people who have been involved in the past and have put lots of energy and money into the Club only to see it fail have now got a tainted view of matters. Maybe it is realism but I agree with Mapeleyther that it is better to go down swinging than to stand there and do nothing.
I think the fan ownership is certainly worth exploring further and maybe a detailed debate with the Club, BOD, LISA, and TDC is the way forward. I think we all know that we need to draw in more support but saying it and doing it are two completely diffrent things! Maybe if the fans did own the Club then we would have hundreds trying to drum up support instead of the usual few who get disillusioned when their continual attempts don't produce results.
All I know is that our Club is over a 100 years old and we owe it to past and future generations to do all we can to ensure it survives and prospers.

What is stopping hundreds drumming up support now. What is the difference between doing it now and doing it as fan owned other than £50 a month more coming out of your pocket than if hundreds drummed up support now with nothing extra coming out of your pocket. Just a question.

No offence taken and perhaps I was a little harsh in my post but all I was trying to say that if you're asking the 'average' fan to stump up money (forgetting the business folk for a moment) you need to make it clear from the off that they won't be getting to make any decisions, they will merely be contributing to the clubs finances.

I will say that we absolutely need to make some changes at the club and if fan ownership is the only way to save it then I would back it 100%, I just hope that when the shareholders get to vote for their BOD, they choose very, very wisely.

And are these the very same fans who will be asked for cash?

The 'ordinary' fan doesn't care how your business (or any other) runs, they just want to know 1) Will their investment be looked after. 2) Will they get a say in how it is spent.

It really is that simple and your genius is totally irrelevant to whether they choose to invest or not.

Well maybe if the fans have a stake in the Club they will be more willing to promote it. Clearly it is not happening too well at present judging by the crowds we are getting. Trying to get the young kids to the LSV is the trick to the future of the Club and if anyone can provide a solution to this then they have my vote for Chairman!

I would feel far easier having a share holder certificate in return for my £50:00 a month and elect a B.O.D to run the club on my behalf.

I would much rather that than invest in the current set up of SCL with all it's directors who are still holding on to worthless shares and have my contribution soaked up in existing debt. whilst there being no other director investment from SCL

It would also prevent uncomfortable situations where Trevor turns up to LISA, say's the budget is wrong, the club now has a serious cash flow problem that could see it go under and walks out with £15k of members money.

This of course is just my personal view.

Well Said Astleyred.

I think im safe to make this quote as ive never worked on TV, im not over 70, i dont posess a shellsuit or smoke cigars "the potential impact kids and schools could play in a real comunity/fan driven club excites me".

Kids are the next generation and future of the not just the club but the town that potential needs tapping into far more than we are/ have done in the past from what i see. Again not a critism of anybody just an observation.

Going forward if we were able to put to one side the lapsed fans and people who dont come for whatever reason and dont try and keep chasing the lost 300 or so or keep pestering BOB to fetch his mate who isnt really intrested in coming our efforts could collectivley find new people create and extend a new fan base and the old ones will eventually jump back on the bandwaggon as a result. Set high targets and expectations of ourselves monitor and minute all meetings produce glossy documents of all meetings and issue to all shareholders and form a powerful structured group were averyone knows what the overall goal is.

If we fail we fail (i dont ever like to consider this as an option by the way) in a transparent and honest manner all and all stood together then at least we can all say as fans we tried and most likely still be better off than now anyway.

Momentum can be gained and built on if structured and managed strongly and correctly. we need to understand the needs of people across the board weather it be the guy who pays to stand on the terrace or the buisnessman who pays to sponser a game and taylor Leigh Centurions to suit them not vica versa. Sell our product to every walk of life and sell it well.

Lots of things to be explored if the initial hurdles can be gotton over and enough intrest and suport is recieved then who knows what can happen.

JC

I am most upset about your remarks .

I do a good job at what I do and there's more then me involved.

I think some people on here have good ideas and others are happy to just whinge and insult people but not really do anything to help.

Your lack of understanding is unbelievable, you need to join some commitee's and share your knowledge. I am a fan, I want the club to be the best it can be as most fans do, what is obvious is that this ain't it

you can read into my posts what ever you want linda,ther was no insult there