did they benefit from franchising or just because they were a pet project ?.

they shouldn't have been given the choice Joe, certain clubs had a fit because they thought the championship clubs were getting a 'cut' of the SKY money until it was pointed out to them that it wouldn't affect the SLE clubs 'pot' thats how selfish it is.

Like Leeds, Wigan, St Helens and Warrington.

There's the rub, though.... the RFL gives the SL clubs more money than they've ever had, and the stability to run a 3-year business plan, and the clubs still screw it up. Maybe its just being inside the tent p1551ng out, but I genuinely don't understand why the RFL gets the blame for the clubs' mismanagement.

I know we've had the rough end, as usual... stuck in the championship, no prospect of SL before 2016, not that we'd have been promoted anyway these last seasons (lucky not to be relegated, in fact). Is our board, our squad, our coaching staff, and our financial position better than it was in 2007? I think so, from an outsider's perspective. Certainly Widnes, Halifax and Barrow have grown stronger. So too, probably, have Batley and Keighley. Perhaps, even in the Championship, we've benefitted from the restructured SL/Championship programme.

Wakey have only themselves to blame for their predicament. If they lose their licence, if they do fall down a division, if that means they end up bankrupt, it will be despite the RFL giving them a strong and secure platform of a 3 year licence, not because of it.

You sound like a man who is very close to an organisation that benefits from RFL monies and therefore cannot see the decline happening DESPITE all this extra money. We mustn't bag the RFL, the organisation that changes rules but keeps the changes quiet till somebody breaks the old rules and say "they haven't broken any rules". Makes rules up to suit just one club. Forces clubs themselves to take the pee out of these rules with false crowd figures. Gets themselves in an impossible position where they are literally bribed by SKY to keep expansion clubs going. Oh and what happened to decreasing quota rules? HKR(10!!) and Wire(6) have both increased their quota spots using the rule "anyone here before 2008 is class as a fed trained player". Lets also just mention the salary cap loophole used by Wire in the 'retirement' of Chris Hicks (now signed for Catalan I think) to allow the dog botherer to join them. In short they paid up Mr Hicks 2011 contract or a portion of it, but it doesn't count on the salary cap. He did not have to leave as he was under contract but they clearly found a way to persuade him

Those 4 clubs still have their fair share of imports, off the top of my head around 20 in total (and many in key positions which stunts the development of our own in the same spots) - but as you've chosen them lets look at the common denominator.

[iNone are likely to be ever booted out of SL[/i.

Now lets go back to the original issue of Wakefield. Why have they done what they have done? Is it because they are they badly run or is it becuase they working in 3 year periods like half a dozen other clubs in SL? The franchises brought a lot of promises, a lot of changes to be had. Really?

Are we seeing clubs send the buggers back and play their own? Have we seen a huge wave of new young talent burst through the scenes? Have we seen any new stadia? Are clubs finincially healthier? Are we attracting any more luctrative sponshorship deals? Is the game outside SL stronger? Are we any nearer to beating the Aussies? No. No, to every single question.

People will say we've only given it 3 years. No. That is a lie. The foundations for all this were lay 15 years ago. Aside from Catalans, Celtic, and HKR the current make up of the SL clubs has not changed much. Some have had ups and downs (Hudds, Cas, Salford) but by and large the majority of SL has had the benefit of big money for a generation now.

Personally, I don't think the 'work in progress' is any further ahead than it was a couple of years ago, and there is plenty proof in the pudding to back this up too.

This franchise farce has done nowt but move a once a year issue to a three yealy thing, generating very little benefit but a whole host of problems. Is that the fault of the RFL or Wakefield?

Top post.....

All done under the 'rules' one must say though Derek, and there is the problem, the rules seem to be made to fit the circumstances as and when.

Just because you say its a lie, doesn't make it so. You know very well we are 3 years in. The majority of clubs, prior to franchises have not been in SL with a 3 year licence like they have now. So the foundations where never there as you put it for 15 years.
I refuse to be drawn into this debate again because its the same subjective nonsense posted - but failed on this occasion. In fact it now bores me so much I can't be @rsed with this forum much nowadays, because of the amount of threads going over the same subject - basically the governing body is trying to kill the game outside SL and destroy Leigh - with the flames fanned by the usual posters.

adios.

Leeigh Leeigh, it was a joke this thread about us buying Wakey and moving it to Leigh and renaming it Leigh Centurions


However, why oh why do you not see what harm the |RFL are doing by trying to change something that worked as it was, by all means bring in new teams, but be honest about what excemptions their getting and tell fans the truth, stop treating us all like idiots and feeding us a few crumbs.
As for the Wakey situation the RFL should help them as much as theyve helped London and Crusaders, but they wont, as they unfortunately dont come from a area they want to expand into.

Ok, fair enough, lets have a look...

Current Clubs In Super League XIV (with number of years 'service' out of 15)

Bulls (15)
Cas (12)
Catalans (5)
Crusaders (3)
Harlequins (15)
Huddersfield (12)
Hull (11)
HKR (5)
Leeds (15)
Salford (12)
Saints (15)
Wakey (13)
Wire (15)
Wigan (15)

We have 6 clubs with 100% participation, another 5 with 10 years or more, and 3 more clubs with between 3 and 5 years.

So, 40% of the clubs have a 100% 15 year record, and 80% of them have been there for more than 10 years.

Personally I reckon this shows that <quote> [i'by and large the majority of SL has had the benefit of big money for a generation now'[/i and the foundations for it/them were indeed laid 15 years ago, but if you have anything to prove otherwise, feel free.

AD - What are you saying here. I mean you criticize that franchises haven't worked, which I assume you include the main reason of franchises and that is having 3 years to build etc etc. But considering its only 3 years in, you now for seemingly convenience sake mention clubs have somehow been guaranteed SL afterall before franchises without risk of relegation.
This is one of many reasons I can't be doing with this forum anymore.

.......sadly missed already........

Lighten up mate. When we all start thinking and posting the same thing it will be a sorry day.

Fight your corner oh and congrats 2 City on sneakin a draw today.

The ' off ' season

OK, this really isn't difficult.

Firstly, I see more downside to upside to the first 3 year period. Bad bits....moving goalposts, the Celtic farce, many clubs still employing foreigners en-masse, lethargy/reduced interest among fans in the Championship, spiralling debts, and promises of new grounds not happening to name a few. Benefits? I'm struggling, honestly.

Secondly, I have not said clubs had been guaranteed SL before the franchises, you've just made that bit up. What I hear are people trying to convince us that nothing can be built in 3 years and the franchise thing will take a few years to settle down. Why? What I am saying is 80% of the clubs have already been in SL for more than 10 years so what on earth have they been doing all this time?

You also have to consider if you are a franchise club and lose it then you are in going nowhere land for at least 3 seasons.

Daft system as I have been posting since it was introduced. I did say way back then that any club losing a franchise would have a bleak future.

It is counterproductive and a bad idea imo but hey whats new. Is the game better with it or in an even more perilous state because of it ?

Says it all doesn't it ?

I also stated it was ' flawed ' frank , I see P and R as a ' safety valve ' whereas being stuck in SL is akin to a boiler exploding

I don't know how true it is but a Wakey fan has suggested that a serious potential investor in the club has decided not to get involved after a meeting with the RFL , so you would have to consider what he asked ?

Was it " are Wakey guaranteed a licence if I am willing to bankroll them ? " , or was it " will a Championship club be guaranteed a SL spot in 2015 ? "

If it was the former then understandably the RFL are not going to compromise the application process by saying yes and any serious investor would be under no illusions as to Wakeys probable fate

If it was the latter then it would potentially spell real problems for them , and us

If they said scenario 2 Steve then I can't see ANY bankroller staying/getting involved with ANY Championship club, now that really would decimate the Championships.
Now it's allright sitting in an ivory tower saying clubs outside of SL should do AB&C but the RFL are now insisting on having a 'hand' in/'eye' on Championship clubs financial dealings (good or bad? take your pick), and building a Red Hall empire (and on that note I would really like to see how many people actually 'work' for the RFL now compared to say 5 years ago and where does the money come from to pay their salaries).
Why don't the RFL do the honourable thing and say right this is the last time we will have a round of licence applications if your in your in if your out then tough, but ANY SL team going whatsits up will be expelled and replaced with a round of applications from potential Championship clubs and the criteria will be A,B,C,D (etc) and make the points realistic. OR make it a proper franchised sport.
The SL clubs would then perhaps settle down and start to produce home grown talent properly, and stop employing over paid over seas players and the Championship teams wouldn't have to 'go for broke' every year to try and impress, for people like O'Connor, Harrison, and AT can't go on paying out tens of thousands (perhaps even millions) of pounds chasing the dream.
Sorry if this does not impress the promotion and relegation people but it would seem that has now gone never to be discused (at Red Hall) ever again.

I completely agree Fred , in 4 weeks time we enter the next SL licence period as far as the Championship clubs are concerned , and as yet I havent seen or heard of any declaration by the RFL or any club that we know what we are actually playing for as far as the application critiera is concerned

Is there to be a devinate ' promotion ' or not ? , Championship club owners have the right to know this now

They are probably still trying to work out Steve which clubs are going to go bankrupt in 2011, Wakey, Cas, Hull KR and the infamous Crusaders all hang by a thread.

Just on the Celtic Crusaders debate, I wonder what would have happened if they had stayed in the Championship??

Would they have gone bankrupt twice in 2 years?

Would they be awash with overseas players?

Would they be succesful?

If they were to be succesful, would their gates have increased?

and just think, in a promotion and relegation system they may just have 'earned' their way in to SL and further built momentum????

Just a thought.....................

I suppose it would have depended on whether their player scam was found out I suppose Ste

You may get into Superleague 2012 after all.I may put a pound into Wakey, too help with some fresh washing powder for their shirts.

Thats way too early for us as IM alluded to in LE. Another successful campaign for 2011 is all Leythers want.