In order to keep fans watching RL, create greater choice of English players for the national team, stop teams going to the wall, I think it's about time that Super League was expanded to 2 division with say 12 teams per division.

That would be say all those at present plus
Widnes, Leigh, Sheffield, Halifax, Barrow, Featherstone, Toulose, Batley, Whitehaven, Dewsbury or Keighley.

They would have to divi the money out to ensure both leagues are full time, but not paying extortionate wages to ageing Aussies, reasonable wages for British players (£30k/yr), 25man squad (£750k) which is less than half the salary cap as present.

There would then be promotion and relegation, more english players to pick from for the national team, Foreigner cap including Kolpack of max 2 per team.

The remaining teams would play in 1 division and have to act as feeder clubs but would have the opportunity of becoming a SL team if one of the teams folded, broke financial rules etc.

Without something radical like this, fans will get even more dis-illusioned than they are now, and RL outside of SL will be back to the old days of winning pay only, and a slightly better standard than the top amatuers.

The demise has started and it's upto the RL to take off it's blinkers, wake up and smell the roses.
Otherwise, LSV, The Shay, Stobart, etc etc will only have to open 1 end shortly.

great idea, cant see it happening tho

This is a typical post of a fan of the sport who can see the problems & possible solutions from the outside.

Unfortunately the people who run our sport on the inside can't see the problems let alone come up with solutions. They are just going to ruin it until they've only got left the teams they want at the so called top level.

Problem is, the top clubs aren't feeling any kind of squeeze at all. Why should Wigan, Leeds, Hull and Wire fans give a toss? Things like this don't affect them and their clubs are run by the real power brokers of Rugby League. Only when BskyB threaten to pull the plug will the top brass sit up and panic.

no way, too many clubs near the M62.

There was a reason they put the M62 in that location........maybe if the road planners in their heyday deviated on a long meandering path , we would n`t have the curse of being too close to the M62...

The M180/M181/A15 Lincoln intersection would be a far better choice. It's a bit nearer London, so that's a bit more advertising revenue potential from BskyB and it's flat as Kath Hetherington's chest, so no more silly slopes like you get at Batley & Featherstone's ground.

Win-win.

Based on what , on field perfomance , or off field facilities ?

It is indeed typical of a fan on the outside. It's exactly what I would have posted before meeting those working on the inside. Sadly, though, it's wrong.

The people who work at Red Hall, where do you think they've come from? From the amateur game, from the pro clubs, from the terraces, from the likes of Leigh Miners and St Pats and East Hull and Milford, from the Douggie Stand and the Boulevard and Wilderspool. They want the best for the game, above all. And, indeed, they can see the problems, with far, far greater clarity and knowledge than the fans on the outside....




...and there's the rub. The clubs are independent businesses. The RFL can't control them. Wigan, Leeds, Hull, Wire, Saints, will all do what suits them, and vote for what suits them. Not that those clubs aren't supportive of development, or that their leaders don't want the game to grow, but ultimately these independent businesses have both a right and an obligation to follow their own interests. So, will every SL club vote to take 50% less money so that each Championship Club gets an equal share? What do you think?

Would Leigh accept their RFL central income being cut in half to fund Skolars or Blackpool?

I don't think, by any stretch, that the RFL is infallable, nor do I agree with all its decisions. But its leadership is VERY aware of the problems, and is far more understanding of the difficulties in finding and applying solutions - not least because it doesn't control all the clubs, or indeed all the structures of the game.

both - i.e. the former, but with thresholds for the latter at key stages (like, in fact, every other major team sport pyramid, footy, union, hockey etc).

Have to say it looks VERY exciting from this end of the country. I already have teams planning how they can prepare to be semi-pro and in national competition in 3-5 years WITHOUT just waiting for some disgruntled RU millionaire or an artificial 'development' ladder into higher competition.

Thing is though , we have had 2 pyramids running for the last few years

Are the changes to all summer going to bring them together ?

Do those clubs not all recieve the same ? , or have the same available to them ?

Maybe if they were shall we say a bit more ' honest ' they would have more respect among the fans of clubs ?

Your take on the crusaders issue ?

I have no doubt that there are some very hard working honest people at the RFL , but the ones at the top , well I have nothing but contempt for them , their history does not fill me with confidence

The consultation is ongoing but that would be the intention, if all parties agree.




Short answer, I don't know. Longer answer, I believe so in general terms, though as I understand it the organisation has been pragmatic in helping clubs when they need it (though not necessarily with more, just with earlier payments).



I absolutely agree with the 'honest' bit. I've argued with RFL people at senior (but not top) level on exactly that point. On a personal level I would tell everyone everything and have it all in the open. Apart from anything else, it would be much clearer how hard it is to manage a bunch of independent and wilful organisations (from pro clubs to amateur leagues, international players to under 9's competitions).

Crusaders - my take is, pro Welsh club vital, worth more to the long term future of the game than another Lancastrian or Yorkshire SL club. General PR around the club, and especially around the franchise award, shambolic and misguided (at best) or dishonest (at worst).

Those at the top of the RFL? I only 'know' one board member in any detail, and that person is superb.

I've only on a couple of occasions been in the room with the very top, but good friends I've known and respected for far longer than the existence of SL have reassured me that the head honcho is utterly committed to our sport, and has been a bloody visionary in developing the game to unprecedented levels of credibility with politicians and sponsors, in ways that the average fan would never see or even consider.

Surprised me, too. But it is not by chance that Red Hall was the first place visited by the incoming Minister for Sport, nor that we are receiving the same treatment for our World Cup as that other sport, or that RFL staff hold key committee roles in a myriad of multi-sports development bodies, funding programmes and decision-making panels.

You've probably had more dealings with the brass than I have, and from a club perspective. The RFL's track record is not unblemished, and some clubs have definitely had the worst of it (Keighley in 1995, for starters, but we've not had many favours). But the reaction of Red Hall to our reinstatement in the Championship has proved to me beyond all doubt that the RFL does not have a vendetta against us. Everyone, without exception, wanted us in that division with Widnes and Fax, not down amongst the Swintons and Skolars.

Red Hall would not be unhappy with us in SL - IF we were clearly in the top 11 northern English clubs in terms of our planning and management, our fanbase and revenue streams, and our playing potential. We're not, though. Close - top 15 definitely - but not top 11.

Is that insider ifo...........

That was a reply to MR C.........

even so, I'll pop an answer...

...ambitions for a single, national pyramid from start-up club in a local league division 9, up to and including SL, are in the public domain already. The game has to decide it wants to go down that route, and then decide how it's going to transition from now to its chosen future shape. My area is all summer anyway, so for us it has pretty much 100% approval. I can't see the rest of the sport NOT wanting it (at least, not many, and not the players or parents of junior players)

Personally I believe they dont know what to do with the Championship clubs , they know basically there is no future for them , there is no way any of them are going to be able to draw support , it is that which most upsets me

Bottom line is I dont trust them , or they are dishonest , and at the end of the day , our sport was based on honesty , that is what broke us away from the Union in the first place , they dont understand the sport below SL and above the amatuer game , so if they dont understand it , find somebody who does

But we don`t have a direct route from local league 9 into SL........We don`t even have that from a tier below SL.Otherwise you are being ambiguous.
It `ll suit yourselves down in Exeter, surely this gives folks time to develop fitness in the off season for their preferred choice of Onion in the winter.

why should you upsep people with that post ?

there is no problem though is there?this town isn't big enough for two semi pro clubs,so if the east or miners step up to the mark and that leads to the demise of LC then so be it.LC will have no one to blame but themselves.

not in this sport you dont.

we got about 1800 home supporters last season.
why would SLE want this club in that league?

How many would watch Wrexham in the championship?, how many would watch Harlequins in the championship? How many watched Hull KR in the championship? How many will watch Wakefield (I apologise to them) Salford (apologise) Castleford (and again) Huddersfield (and again) with no chance of promotion for 3 years?
Attendances are relative to which division you are playing in so having attendances in the criteria is wrong it should go on what attendances could be achieved like it should be what revenue could be achieved (and its that which IMO is our one stumbling block at the moment and thats real revenue not fancy accounting).
Without wishing to upset you JC its a mental set like that Mr C is reffering to, Widnes and its supporters have had a never say die attitude and a belief in themselves since they were refused three years ago that its about time we Leigh fans got.
If you don't aim for the stars you will only ever hit the dust, but it must be done progressively and not like has been tried in Wales over a very short period of time, we have to start that mind set and self belief NOW, but we always seem to try and self implode at Leigh we slag off each and every signing we slag off a choice of shirt design we slag off everything and everybody concerned instead of keeping our mouths shut pulling together, forgetting events that have occurred in the past and aim for the stars, because if we keep doing ourselves down we will never rise above the dust. Oh but we have freedom of speak and we pay our dues so we must have our say some may shout, which is all well and good but for once in our long proud history as a rugby club could we not all just do away with all this negativity and pull together, get behind Arthur Thomas and Ian Millward and all aim for the dream, like Ian says just enjoy the ride yes it may become rocky at times but a rocky ride sometimes makes for an exciting one.

Agree about negativity about the club to a point. But can the club also take responsibility for its own actions sometimes instead of having a swipe at Welsh clubs and the governing body. This actually does harm to the club by criticizing the competition we are actually in - devaluing it another words. Lets forget everything is unfair and the blame game.
Promote Leigh Centurions and RL, and also appreciating the competition we play in - which is just as good to watch as SL for entertainment and that important ingredient in sport - unpredictable results where you are hoping to beat Batley at home and not demanding it because we are supposed to be a SL club in waiting.


Also why oh why do some on here seem to think weekly crowds are effected by the old system of not having P&R when crowds where poor then too? Crowds are not great now, but they wasn't 4 years ago either. Yes crowds have gone down, but so have they at other sports and activities.

If Leigh East or Miners got in the Championship, I think it would be great.