Does Simon Moran really buy new players for the club when needed ? I know it is common for people to urge him to 'put his hand in his pockets' when performances drop and we have a couple of bad years. But if you look at the 2015 accounts you will see an item 'net transfer costs' within the profit and loss account. And if you look at the early pages of the annual accounts it clearly states that "the Board are committed to a self sustaining business model". So last year, despite paying a net £137k for new players, we still managed a profit over the year.

Does it matter who pays ? I think it does. SJM will not be here forever, but if the club continues to generate more money than it spends it can continue to buy new players regardless of who owns the shares. It means we have a long term future rather than just a sugar daddy - just so long as we get some measure of success and remain in the top four.

The aim has to be self sustainability within a business model. We are lucky that SJM has been there for the club, he has with his team ensured that self sustainability has been achieved and is continuing. I am sure if there is a dip he can put his hand in his pocket and help.

Success for me is measured in league position and silverware won. Since the arrival of TS we have constantly sat higher in the table than before and have won silverware, both good measures of success.

The holy grail (SL title) and our lack of winning it, so eloquently described by everyone's favourite Sky employee the puppet that is Punch Hemmings is the one that we should be measuring our success by and at present we have fell short.

The business model needs to be strong enough to get us over the line having been so close in recent times. Hopefully without SJM putting additional cash in, but if it has to be, it has to be.

We need to be boosting home attendances by at least 2 to 3000 paying home customers per week plus whatever visiting fans turn up for matches. SJM has done plenty for the club & it isn't right to expect his pockets to be any deeper than they need to be without the club doing all it can to be self financing.

Roger Draper spoke about this at the fans forum back in February. I don't recall the names but a couple of the other board members invested heavily in the squad this year, they made a point of saying it wasn't just Simon Moran who we have to thank.

It's worth remembering as well that it isn't just Moran who pays into the club for transfers etc. as other board members also contribute.

Quite right, it's not a one-man show. Mike Lomax and Stuart Middleton do a HELL of a lot, investing their money into the mix and paying toward the club's wage bill.

If the club is showing transfer fees in the accounts, surely it isn't SJM bankrolling them? I've looked at the 2015 accounts and right at the end there are notes about what the club 'owes' SJM promotions and Simon Moran personally. The figures stand at an £185k directors loan which has been in place for a few years. Also an outstanding balance of £600k to SJM Promotions, which has been steadily reducing from £1.4M pre 2009 (although there was no reduction in this figure in the 2015 accounts).

I believe the new director that has recently come on board, Stuart Middleton has invested fairly substantially this year, possibly with regards the shop extension & re fit. There have also been improvements to the sound system, toilets and new bars installed. You would assume Stuart along with Moran has supported this.

The net debt position is reducing however from around £2.4M in 2014, to just over £2.0M in 2015.

2016 may we'll see an increase in the debt position given the stadium improvements this year and the Westerman transfer fee, which I believe will be in 2016 accounts.

However successive seasons of posting profits suggests the club is a going concern I feel, and debt isn't a problem as long as you can service the payments and the debt incurred is allowing the business to grow to a greater level than potential interest charge of the borrowings.

I think the club has very much been propped up by SJM & other directors in the past, but the club seems to be in a strong position financially now with increased TV funding around the corner.

The model has got to be self sustenance and 'we' as a club at the moment have the right ingredients at 'our' disposal to make that happen, some recent success, a decent coach, staff and squad, our own ground to help revenue streams, a high profile in the sport to attract players if needed and a high profile in the town itself in comparison to say Salford.

Apologies for a bit of negativity but we should be seeing higher attendances IMO on a regular basis. If the town backed the club just a bit better (I think they deserve it BTW) say 12k instead of 10k for an average game, we could get and perhaps stay on a roll? That interest would be paid back as it would generate a positive attitude, we need to play our part in demanding the best. It's not all about the men at the top, their 'job' is to lay that platform and I think that they have by and large done that....NTW

Have you got a copy of these accounts for us to have a look at WO?

Quote ="garyhulsefan"Have you got a copy of these accounts for us to have a look at WO?'" I think he pays a £1 for them from Companied House. I found these: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history Not sure if they are full accounts but gives a fair amount of info. Just click on the links that have 20+ pages.

Quote ="garyhulsefan"Have you got a copy of these accounts for us to have a look at WO?'" I think he pays a £1 for them from Companied House. I found these: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history Not sure if they are full accounts but gives a fair amount of info. Just click on the links that have 20+ pages.

They are 25 pages long - the full accounts.

We only need to make Wembley and debts will take care of themselves.
That's why I'm old school, I will take the the cc over the GF everytime.

Speaking of Directors with deep pockets and or the club having money in the bank, would it be worth a punt on Andre Savelio from Stains? I believe he is about to join Castleford on loan!

He also resigned a good contract end of last season.

quite bizzare whats happened to him.. you cant help but think he is a victim of the poor coaching at the club.

If he is about to join cas or widnes, I find it hard to believe that we wouldn't try to make a move for him, seeing as we tried to sign him last season.

Maybe previous discussions with the player/players representatives left a sour taste in the mouth and the club want no part of it.

Maybe he played saints for such a big payrise that were not interested in his salary demands.

Maybe saints want to loan him out, then bring him back when they have a new coach who wont scapegoat him.

Who knows?

MD, I think your choice of the word scapegoat is bang on mate. The lad did renegotiate a better deal as we all would, Stains bettered our deal by quite some way, but cross words have led to scapegoatism being used. The lad has been peeved at the lack of game time hence the current stance from both sides. Personally I think under TS he would flourish he does have a great attitude and Powell may be on to a winner.

We offered Savelio a good deal but he wanted to stay Loyal to saints. His relationship with Cunningham has broken down and its only been a matter of time until he left.

Savelio as signed with Cas on loan for rest of season,as for us going him for us again I guess it depends on how teed off the club is when they tried to sign him last season, it could be he was just using us to get a better deal at Saints as its already been alluded to.

I would wait and see how he gets on at Cas, not sure if he's a scapegoat or just not been putting in the effort in the Reserves to warrant a call up.

In simplistic terms, none of the person named above will put their hand in their pocket along the lines of "here's £100k towards the signing of xxxxxxx". What tends to happen is there will be discussions at board level where players might get mentioned and a board member might say something along the lines of "well, if xxxxxxx is signed, then we (most likely via commercial body) will sponsor them". From the point of view of the funder, its additional advertising expenditure and for as long as they get something out of it.....even if that "something" is the satisfaction of helping the local team ..... it will continue.

You may also have the situation that a "wealthy" director might lend the company a sum of money. This will be included in the company's accounts as a creditor (ie..it will have to be paid back at some point). However from a cashflow perspective, its possible that the company can make plans on the basis of it being unlikely that the cash will actually be laid out.

The only people who really know what is happening regarding finances at the club are those people are those sat around that board table at the directors meetings.