All fair enough Paul, but, let's not turn ourselves into The Scarlet Turkey where one particular correspondent has that many Foes he must be talking to him/herself and a very small select group. Foes what is all that about, really? I like the fact that our board seems to be made up of all sorts and by and large isn't abusive.

I don't mind others thinking my opinions are wrong, that's their opinion after all, as long as I am afforded the same then I've no complaints.

I don't have a choice

I've not read the ten page thread, but it's obvious we need a couple of years of rebuilding to get back to the level we were at a couple of years ago. I'd rather see Tony Smith doing that rebuilding than anyone else who is currently available.

This season is a write off, and the next couple might be as well, but if Smith fancies it then we'll get back to challenging again before long. We could even end up at Wembley this year if the winners of Leeds V Sants draw Wigan along the way and we avoid them 'til the final. I accept we'd probably lose to one of those three in the final, but the day out itself would have seemed like a dream when Smith took over but now it would be a scant consolation.

That's thanks to him and the expectation he has created. Don't even think about letting him go.

See, now Uncle Rico (grandma called and say you should go home btw) thats all fine and dandy if the participants are all working to the same rules, however when you get people/persons who are 'wrong' and i do mean 'wrong wrong' as in, not based on anything anyone else accurately remembers like that, it gets peoples backs up. Especially if those people/persons constantly post repeatedly in that style to no benefit whatsoever and it seems that they're posting purely for the sake of it, which is covered in the AUP under thread spamming and post count increasing. it also gets peoples backs up.

Think about it this way, you ever tried to play chess against someone thats not trying to win? its bloody infuriating, downright awkward and spoils the game, and i think that's whats going on here.

Some people just like to hear the sound of their own keyboard, and put anything.

and we have a winner.....

Whilst i agree with Dropkick that smith deserves a bit of time due to the success he has brought to this club, i also believe that if the owner thinks there is somebody out there(and they don't have to be 'available')who can take us on to better things then the success he brought us is irrelevant. Between 1996 and 2006 saints sacked three coaches who had won both the championship and challenge cups. This kept them at the top. If we are honest, we have been the best side in Super League for the last three years and we still haven't won the title. It might sound harsh, but until smith delivers it(and he certainly won't this season)then he has failed in my opinion.

That's an interesting point.
Even the staunchest Smith fan would find it difficult to put up an argument.

When you put it like that... Smith has indeed failed as the target for the cup has always been to win SL.

Its a very good point and if he was to stay for the next 3 or 4 years and still not deliver the SL title, then I think he would have to go down as a failure, despite the Challenge Cup successes.

However, to look at it from another angle, over the last 5 years there have been 10 major trophies on offer - Wigan have won 4 of them, Leeds 3, and we have the remaining 3.... That's very good company to be in and nobody else has won a bean, bar the pointless League Leader's Shield, so from that aspect we should be very proud of what we have done under Tony Smith.

Personally, I think the biggest disappointment is that we definitely have had the squad to have won at least one GF.... The ironic thing being the side which was edged out of a final appearance in 2011, was a much better side than either of the two that did the make the final - That semi final defeat to Leeds, for me, was the biggest disappointment of all, far more than the GF defeats, simply because that side were the best team in the league by a distance and got done by a very canny Leeds side - That particular defeat perhaps showed that Tony Smith isn't the genius that some have him down for.

If the club had had the vision to appoint Shaun Wane as Wire coach when he was Wigan assistant I wonder how different recent history would have been.

Fine margins. If Russell Smith hadn't conned us in 1994 would Brian Johnson have been our greatest coach of the last 40 years by virtue of delivering the championship?

Sometimes we live and die by the sword.
I believe Cullen could have made it had Bridge not gone astray.
Monaghan's pass that sealed Paul Cullen's honour and fate.
I told him so, he couldn't disagree.
When Briers and Bridge partnered up they were fantastic. It just didn't happen enough times.

Perhaps Kevin Ashcroft could have been our most successful coaches?
We only need one win from three to win the league and lost them all!!

Smith may yet turn out to be good, he has not had as long as Cullen did.

Hopefully our board have learned from their mistakes making knee-jerk reactions about a coach based on one bad pass.

What we need is stability and planning for the long term with Smith...look at Arsenal with Wenger they don't change their manager every 5 minutes just because they have a bad game.

Wenger? Now I'm not sure where you stand on this??

And when was the last time nal won anything?..
I think they should employ briers as a full time attacking coach, working on structures and set plays.
As for the half back partnership, it just doesn't work.
No general, no direction or kicking game..smith must see this along with the other 9000 speccys.
Time to earn his crust.

Was it sacking coaches that kept them at the top or was it more to do with having Cunningham, Sculthorpe, Long and co...?

Between 96 and 06 we went through Dorahy, Van de Velde, Anderson, Plange and Cullen so we were more on the ball when it came to changing coaches than Saints were.

Oh my!
You just put the fear of God right into me.
Serious dark times.

Alfie Langer being the light....only you don't go into the light!

And if you want to quibble, they only sacked two and neither if them were for team performance issues.

.....and James Lowes.

Slight difference is that saints sacked successful coaches.

The surprise sacking for me was that of Eric Hughes.

Hadn't they just beaten us 80-0 Duckie ?

Almost twice.

THANK THE LORD - you have 'shut up' about noble!!!!! but why mention wane? - not been in the job long enough yet(and would not 'leave' for sure) - lets see if he's consistant, and nobody knows if he can 'build' a yet team either(with the resourses at wigan it is an advantage to step into that job)??

although I have my doubts about what Tony is doing right now - he has earned my respect to give him time



He knows any team has an amount of time to 'experiment and/or give pairings, a chance to build/prove themselves' in the first third or so at the start of a season - the latter end is all that counts at the end of the day

Come on the wire