I dont think Mathers is a bad player, but i have been disappointed in his recent appearances. For me both Reily and Mathers are good, but both fall short making at least one screw up each game. And in tight games one screw up is far to many.

big difference for me is that riley has played a handfull of games at FB for the first team.

Richie's been playing FB first grade for nearly 7 years now.

If you think they're both performing at a similar level than thats damning on mathers.

And ex ones, aren't they close to getting Clinton Schicofske. (Sic)

I'm not sure how old he is, but in my head I've got him at 32/33. I used to like him at Canberra.

34.

At least Mathers wants to be at the club and plays with pride in the jersey.

Would you rather we still had Gleeson and Mathers was at Wigan?

Cat - you're bob-on with that statement chum. Can't knock what Mathers brings to the team in regards camraderie and passion, but Riley makes more breaks than him and he's a great deal younger. I'd still probably prefer Mathers as the last line of defence, but then if you were chasing someone down you'd go for the Ginge every time.

It's quite damning that a great many opposition fans who turn up on the Wire board speak out about really rating Riley, and from big clubs like Leeds, Saints and (sigh) Wigan. I can't recall one opposition fan who has ever mentioned Mathers in anything like the same esteem.

All rival fans - who would you have in your squad or team? Riley or Mathers?

This is an awesome thread. Fancy bashing Mathers! First of all, he wasn't helped in anyway shape of form by our lazy house defence who gave whoever was about to kick the ball an eternity to do just that! And second of all, the weather was so horrendous that you'd think atleast one of the players would have realised that we need to apply 80% more pressure on last tackle kickers, or atleast the coaching staff would have got this message out at some point. I was amazed by the time and space in which we allowed Eastmond (of all people) to direct play. Well, actually, I wasn't that amazed!

For me, and sorry for the negativity here, as soon as Eastmond walked through for try number one, I realised that another defeat was only 70 or so minutes away. And whilst we rallied very well in the second period, this game was essentially a couple of steps back from us because the same simple flaws in our defence which allow them to win every time were evident once again.

I just hope theres a big response on friday.

Mathers by a country mile.

As much as I dont like him, Wellens is absolutely sound with his defensive positioning and general FB play. But in reality, he's probably the only one in SL of that standard which makes some of this Mathers' criticism a little exaggerated in my opinion.

I can't believe people are saying that he's not good enough for us if we want to win things - he was only with us for 3/4 of a season and we won our first trophy in 30 years, I appreciate it wasn't all down to him.

Most of the fans on here use the phrase "In Smith We Trust" and rightly so since the Challenge Cup Final and our fantastic start to this season, however it would appear some don't have complete trust, as Mr Smith brought Mr Mathers to our club - surely if Mr Smith thinks he's good enough that should be enough for us. When Mr Mathers isn't viewed as good enough, I've no dout he'll be replaced!

A lot of the good sides have weak players that are carried for salary cap reasons more than anything. For examples see Saints with Danny Arnold or Ricky Bibey. The fact that he was in the Cup winning side doesn't mean he's any good.

On the subject of Mathers v Riley:

1 on 1 tackling:
Mathers - Riley Mathers is truly pathetic in a 1 on 1 situation. His attempts to tickle Eastmond were ridiculous and I'll never forget his attempt on a walking Jon Wilkin.

Defensive positioning:
Mathers - Riley Mathers isn't too bad at this tbh. He just lets himself down once he's there

Security:
Mathers - Riley Once dodgy, always dodgy. A 17 year old Connolly, Wellens or Radlinski wouldn't drop high balls. Mathers should now be a composed, seen-it-all pro, but he acts like the randoms from the crowd some clubs have for the half time challenge. A massive liability who creates panic in the defensive line whenever the opposition is in a position to kick, forcing other players out of position and weakening the whole defensive system. For evidence watch the replay of Gardner's try from his mistake. The whole defensive line was sucked into the middle fearing the error. When it came Eastmond had men outside him and acres of space.

Kick returns:
Mathers - Riley If he actually manages to catch a ball he's good here too. Enthusiasm is his best attribute

Attack:
Mathers - Riley Richie Mathers has scored something like 5 tries in 5 years. He doesn't score enough tries. I'm sure Riley would contribute a whole lot more, easily double figures if he started at fullback for the majority of the season.

Back slaps:
Mathers - Riley No one compares to Richie.

I'm no Mathers fan, but I'd take him above Riley all day long. If folk think Riley is this safe as houses alternative, he isn't. I remember cringing last year when we played Wakefield away - granted he scored a full lengther late in the game, by that time we were forty odd down due in no small part to his antics. Christ, he presented a try last week with plop handling.

He's a decent winger - that's it for me. There's nothing exciting about him, he's not flash, he'd rather cut in than go out etc, but he does a job, he's a tough little cookie, he's reliable enough and he gives you 100% every week. If he had the swagger that Penny has with ball in hand, he'd be a serious talent. Sadly, if Penny could do all the little things well like Riley does, so would he.

I think that analysis is fair although Riley is a better returner of the kick than Mathers. In fact I am struggling to think of many things that Mathers actually does well.

Top backslapper on Superleague.

That's the nail hit squarely on the head. Is Hicks no longer an option for FB?

He has greater worth to the team as a winger, than fullback in my humble.

I would have Hicks at Fb

So would i looks so much secure under the high bomb and is so powerful and a good returner of the ball aswell imo.

Hicks
Riley
Bridge
King
Atkins

King on the wing, Atkins inside him. I'd go with that to be honest, for all Mathers' enthusiasm and organising he brings to the team, the risk and lack of confidence as a last line defender far out weighs the pros for me. I know its harsh, but If we are seriously going to be challenging for trophies we cant afford to players who struggles to perform the basics.

I'd keep roatating King & Atkins it was proven that is a good move from the Bradford game.

Yeah rotating, they have complemented each other very well so far this season.

Mathers as the last line of defence is superb. The amount of times he gets under the body of a player over the try line to hold them up is as good as anybody in the league.

If a fullback is faced with a player one on one in mid-field it means somebody else has failed in defence not the fullback.

Im more than happy with where the two ended up

+1

Mathers is a very likeable lad, but in truth a very average fullback. Wigan now have three possible fullbacks in Phelps, Roberts and Richards who are better.
I don't think Wire have three better centres than Gleeson.

And so am i.