could that be because it was lashing down and dummy half running is safe play in those conditions.

does Roby running 15 times mean you absolutely battered us off the park or does it mean your halves were devoid of ideas and Roby took it on himself to get your team on the front foot....?

does it mean when Roby runs from dummy half lots Saints win...? I mean you've put 60 on two teams yet he apparently didn't run from dummy half much then...???

either way you have been lauded as the best team on the planet and we are just four points behind you and our hooker leads they way in dummy half runs .....

Ratchford has been kicking at 75%+, that’s good enough. Livett is also a very good kicker, Charnley would be behind Ratchford, Roberts, Goodwin, Livett and Patton in the kicking stakes.

Charnley was first choice kicker at Wigan for quite a lengthy period.

Who's ranting?
I'm just making a point where we have a crucial deficiency. If you want to bury your head in the sand, and hope for the best with adequate kickers, good for you. I want my team to win matches. If you win matches, you win leagues or cups. Not many teams win these with competent kickers. They win them with great ones.

The kick missed for one of our early tries last night, was borderline atrocious. It was a "shoe in" for a proper kicker. We have a side that possesses a few that "can" kick, but none that can REALLY do it.

I'm of a certain vintage, where I can remember the touring Kiwis of 85. 1-1 in tests, and we're 6-4 down with 10 mins to go in the decider. We get a penalty ON THE TOUCHLINE, and Lee Crooks said give me the ball, I'm kicking it.. IT NEVER LOOKED LIKE MISSING..

Leeds, the current champions have lost a few games buy VERY small margins, because Watkins is kicking. Did you see one of his ""attempts" last night? I could have done better with my boots on the wrong feet. No wonder they are outside the top 4.
Go ahead, and avoid an obvious problem. You know best.

Still haven't got a single suggestion yet. I can't think of one (apart from Sneyd) and I don't think we'll be getting him. I'd like a better kicker, you'd like a better kicker ... we'd all like a better kicker.

At least we have several options for kickers should one be out injured. Maybe it would be worth employing a specialist kicking coach a la Wigan?

Could we lure Liam Finn across the Pennines I wonder?

Bryson Goodwin kicked at 80% last year in the NRL which is clearly why he's kicking for us right now. I think his early season leg injury is why he passed the baton to Ratch, who is good but not at that level. I don't think there is an obvious 'super kicker' in the Hesford/Botica mode out there right now in any case.

We must have more goal kickers than any club. Ratchford, Charnley, Roberts, Patton, Livett ... Goodwin & more. Goodwin looked good at the start of the season. Ratchford has been OK and was brilliant at Castleford.
What we all want is one that doesn't have off days. But there ain't many about.

Only when Matty Smith was out.

Against Huuddersfield Goodwin missed a couple of goals from his wrong side so Ratchford took over & he missed a couple from his wrong side. Perhaps using the right footed Ratch on the left half of the field & vice versa with Goodwin could have given us a better success rate.

Tyrone Roberts kicked goal for Newcastle & Gold Coast.

I'm thinking both Roberts and Goodwin have got/had injuries which has hindered them.

What about get a specialist kicking coach from union?

Loads of union teams hire league coaches to improve their defence, why not look to see whether we can get anything from them? Not just goalkicking either, they kick all the time in play union and I expect they could sharpen up some of our long kicking game.

In fact if we really want to steal a march why not get a scrummaging coach in. No other team knows how to scrum properly and I don't think there's anything in the laws that says you can't contest a scrum (correct me if I'm wrong?).

I know people turn their nose up at the mention of union but imagine a Wire team where multiple outside backs were comfortable kicking with either foot and when we were in a bad position on the last tackle there were plenty of options for someone to smash a 40/20; had a 80% plus kicking success rate and won a lot of scrums against the head. It wouldn't mean league was slow and boring as the things that slow union down are the mauls and rucks rather than the effective kicking. Although I can see the risk on the scrum point, if we started doing it every other team would have to follow suit to compete, and then we could have created a nightmare. Imagine league refs trying to police all that crouch-hold-engage stuff.

I have seen Widnes have the nouse to push us off the ball in the scrum on several occasions without being penalised.

Hesford was full value for his role whereas Botica was pretty much carried. He was ok but if he was around today he'd be a championship player.

Wasn't Frano Botica a NZ All black prior to playing for Wigan?- I agree that he would do extremely well in the championship.

Utter nonsense.

Your opinion is noted.
If he wasn't a kicker would Botica walk in to the Wigan team?...I think he might have a chance at Widnes or Huddersfield.

Carried? Botica scored 11 tries in his 1st season. Hesford scored 17 tries in his 6 years at Warrington.

Stats can be made to look many things.
Hesford was a semi pro with semi pro team mates up against teams that were a match and better than Warrington.
Botica was a pro, within a team of pros with pro opportunity to score against semi pro teams in a league where only Wigan were pro and there was no equals or better.

From what I remember Hesford was in the team primarily as a superb goal kicker. He was tried on the wing and fullback but his skill alone in either position didn't justify his selection.

Yes, correct Hesford played wing. Botica played #6. If you going to carry a player put him in a position where he is not going to get involved in play.

I remember Hesford as chiefly a full back. As I remember it Botica developed his kicking skills to get into the team but once in was there for more than just his goal kicking. But I’m sure Wigan fans will have more authority on these points.
I suppose from our point of view the question should be who would you be prepared to drop to bring in a specialist goal kicker, then who is available who can kick and play in that position without losing too much in general play?

I do like Lefty’s fantasy football approach though. It’s like contracts, salary cap and availability don’t matter...he is Uncle Mo and I claim my fiver.