Harrison'll be back next season

Hill has made his career on being difficult to stop, leg drive and drawing in 3 men then getting a quick ptb whilst the 3rd man is running back.

Yes I wonder what Les Boyd's,Kevin Ward's or Adrian Morley's average time to PTB was. Actually I don't care, I loved them for their rough uncompromising enforcer play. I'm a dinosaur though and find myself more and more in a minority at thinking how dull our game has become.

I do give credit where due. Sims over the last 2 weeks has tried to make more hard yards and drive than that constant turn and offload as soon as a finger is laid on him.
Just getting that balance right, a bit of both.
He actually half broke a tackle too v Saints with his hard running against a strong pack.
I have 50p that v Wakefield he breaks a tackle and either scores or there is a try off his pass.
(Don't let me down now Sims)

Well you're not in the minority in thinking the game is duller wires71. I mean we have to watch Russell on the wing due to 'good exit sets' blurgh! Offiah wouldnt get a game these days and what a sight he was in full flow....even against us

Wingers are a real problem for us I think.
Evans isn't a wing. He's not quick enough. He's a top class defensive centre.
Russell isn't a winger either but he does offer something at ptb.

I'd don't understand TS's view on our current wingers and Pennys' position.
Reading the Keith Senior biography (in which he says TS is the best club coach he's worked with) he does this that TS occasionally gets fixated on things erroneously. Maybe this is one of those things.

Just looking up 'erroneously'....
I was wide of the mark, getting that wrong.

Yes I used to like/fear Henderson Gill too. Then of course we had Dessie.

I'm very old fashioned. I like props to be hard as nails and run like they mean it and intimidate. First in when aggro starts and to break tackles. I like the halfbacks to be crafty, take on the line, and marshall a team around the park. I like centres with guile and class making space for wingers, and for wingers to be fast, illusive and skilful.

Do we have one player who with a 5 yard advantage can score a length of the field try without passing ?

Penny.

If people find the game duller now why do we average 10,000 per game against the circa 5,000 in your halcyon period?

Seriously? Next thing is you'll claim he's a defensive warrior on the basis of not missing a tackle all season.

When you have two Hookers who love to jump, Sims is exactly the sort of Prop you need. A Prop who attracts 3 defenders, finds his front quick, gets up before the markers are set and watch Clark go.

Attacking in an opponents 10m. Watch him stand at 1st receiver and attract 3 men only for him to run a dummy line and the ball hit Gidley or Sandow out the back. There are then, three less men in the defensive line.

Honestly. Does anyone actually watch the game or are you just there to celebrate a try?

What more do you want from a prop?

Does he take the hard balls in when we're stuck after a good kick? Yes.
Does he take a backward step? No.
Does he put his body on the line for a big collision? Yes.
Does he win collisions? Yes
Does he do the little 1% things that go un noticed? Always.
Does he lead from the front with Hill? Yes.



We all sound like a bunch of whinging saints fans because we're not scoring 1,000 points a game.

Decent shout there



If Dodds would have been playing regular, this discussion wouldn't crop up. All those statements above would still be true, but Dodds would taking more headlines while Sims would be banging away at the defence quietly under the radar. Losing Dodds has had a big impact on us bigger than most expected.

What more do I want from a prop?

The ability to run the ball in when we are under pressure in our own 10 and make an impact/break in the defensive line with a thundering run rousing the crowd and raising the intensity. Be able to put such a hit in that the opposing player goes backwards, makes and error and spills the ball, looks like they have been hit by a train. The type of forward you don't mess with. You know a bit like a Graham, Morley or Burgess. I admit I am setting my standards quite high here but you did ask.

I am not whinging about scoring points, I am passing comment on the ability of our props as a collective unit to make yardage/meters. The stats clearly show how much we are reliant on Hill and yes we do miss Dodds. The Hull pack will dominate us again at Wembley and it's why we will not win an attritional GF in October.

Quote ="Paul Youane"If people find the game duller now why do we average 10,000 per game against the circa 5,000 in your halcyon period?'" IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html

Quote ="Paul Youane"If people find the game duller now why do we average 10,000 per game against the circa 5,000 in your halcyon period?'" IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html

Warrington

2015: 9,516

2016: 12,258 – Up 2,742

In all honesty we don't really know how good Dodds is in a Wire shirt so i think it is erroneous to say we have missed him.

Just think if Roy had spent 2 years in his sick bed we could have salivated how good we would have been had he played.

Quote ="Wires71"IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html'" The Thursday night fixtures are very unpopular with all team`s fans. This will be a contributory factor in attendance reduction, since our "Friends" from Sky imposed this on Super League.

Quote ="Wires71"IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html'" The Thursday night fixtures are very unpopular with all team`s fans. This will be a contributory factor in attendance reduction, since our "Friends" from Sky imposed this on Super League.

Quote ="Wires71"IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html'" You've conveniently not accounted for 2014 which saw a rise of circa 15% against which this year's drop of 0.52% is measured (although calculated in April so not including the Hull derbyshire at the KC, hence Hull average dropping by 2,342, and Wigan/Saints at the DW which between them would more than wipe out the marginal reported fall). As for Super League not being as exciting it certainly is more exciting and of a greater quality than the rugby on show in the 80s and 90s once the halcyon tinted glasses are removed. Sources: my own eyes

Quote ="Wires71"IIRC the move to the Halliwell Jones accounted for a large increase in average attendance. This is probably due to the improved amenities and increased marketing. This is tailing off however of late as we can see. 2011 Warrington Wolves: 11,149 2012 Warrington Wolves: 11,430 2013 Warrington Wolves: 10,633 2014 Warrington Wolves: 9,870 2015 Warrington Wolves: 9,516 Indeed average attendances across SL are continuing to fall year on year. www.totalrl.com/opinion-super-le ... e-concern/ I don't believe there will be many on here that would state that SL has become more exciting or thrilling or late. Sources: www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/ www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... guide.html'" You've conveniently not accounted for 2014 which saw a rise of circa 15% against which this year's drop of 0.52% is measured (although calculated in April so not including the Hull derbyshire at the KC, hence Hull average dropping by 2,342, and Wigan/Saints at the DW which between them would more than wipe out the marginal reported fall). As for Super League not being as exciting it certainly is more exciting and of a greater quality than the rugby on show in the 80s and 90s once the halcyon tinted glasses are removed. Sources: my own eyes

Nothing is ever good enough for our fans. You wouldn't think that we're still in the mix for the Treble, in the CC final in two weeks time and a point behind top spot. No, we have to be bursting lines on every set and scoring off of every pass.

Everyone bangs on about 2011 and putting 80 points on teams every week. Well you know what? I thought 2011 was boring. Sure the first few weeks it was alright but after that? Nah. not for me. I want to watch a game of rugby league, not a one sided blow out cricket score. Ultimately yes I want us to win every game and yes I get frustrated when we throw a game away, but that's what it is... A GAME. Even if you had Sam Burgess, Morley, Carvell, Westwood, Hill, Taylor, Ellis and whoever else as you're starting pack and bench you wouldn't be getting players bursting a line from taking a ball up in you're own 10.

Some people want the impossible from the players. They're only human, they don't spill balls or fall off tackles on purpose. Thank yourselves lucky you're not a Huddersfield, KR, Salford or Leeds fan (for this season at least anyway).

I've taken the facts as reported and listed the sources. I could not find any later statistics than April 2016 online.
We can agree to disagree on the excitement levels and SL quality of 2016.

You have made the mistake of widening a single critique of pack go-forward backed up by the widely accepted SL Stats into a make believe wide ranging criticism of all things Warrington RLFC which you subsequently defend with fervour. I have not made such criticism nor have I mentioned 2011. I don't want the impossible at all, I just made an observation on Sims and his average gain, which is still undeniable.

I accept we are having a better season than last and a season almost unimaginable back in 2002 but let's not get carried away, even the most pious Wire fan will concede privately there are some significant shortcomings we need to address to even contemplate a treble (having a quality, settled 3/4 line for one which includes playing wingers)

That's very true. I should have made clear we miss a quality prop interchange forward which Dodds had the billing of. I dare not voice a criticism over Asotasi as someone will no doubt point out how he was a mis-understood, hardworking man-mountain who did all the little things and that I should stick to celebrating tries with my oversized foam hand and "T-R-Y" placard.

Not sure where you get the 2016 numbers from BW, but according to my data;

11,037
10,631
13,678
15,008
10,940
9,024
10,370
10,513
9,259
11,724
9,829
122,013 Total
11,092 Average

So yes, they are up but we are not averaging over 12k species I believe.

Quote ="Winslade's Offload"Not sure where you get the 2016 numbers from BW, but according to my data; 11,037 10,631 13,678 15,008 10,940 9,024 10,370 10,513 9,259 11,724 9,829 122,013 Total 11,092 Average So yes, they are up but we are not averaging over 12k species I believe.'" www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/

Quote ="Winslade's Offload"Not sure where you get the 2016 numbers from BW, but according to my data; 11,037 10,631 13,678 15,008 10,940 9,024 10,370 10,513 9,259 11,724 9,829 122,013 Total 11,092 Average So yes, they are up but we are not averaging over 12k species I believe.'" www.totalrl.com/super-league-att ... last-year/

This thread has become like Super League itself, not as good as when it first started, and obsessed with statistics..

Come on fellas, bickering over prop's metres per drive average is as dull as our constant scooting tactics.
Scooting is OK, but in moderation. Smith and Agar seem obsessed by it. We have one of the world's great No 7's in our ranks, yet he doesn't (to me) get his hands on the ball enough. Add to this, a rampaging No. 11, who's seen less balls than Anne Widdecombe, in the last few weeks. We've become dull. There, I've said it. dull, dull, dull, mind-numbingly dull. I don't want win at all costs, robotic rugby. I WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED. If that means losing games, and unfortunately a final, so be it. I don't want the Wigan attitude of "b0ll0cks to the fans, just make sure we get the two points/trophy".

Unfortunately, today's fan has morphed into a Top Trumps bore, who can recite which particular player had most runs from dummy half/metres gained/hit ups. Give me an Andy Gregory pass to Mark Roberts, a Kevin Penny special, a dust up between Boyd and Sorenson, Michael Shenton gliding across a pitch, a Phil Blake chip and chase......THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT. not Russell running from acting half, instead of doing what a winger is supposed to do....beat men and score tries.

I blame Phil Larder.