Yes, the "Speculator" seems to hate any discussion about possible new signings. It would be like you saying you didn't like Adrian Morley and thought he'd been a poor signing.

Interesting to hear Smith saying you couldn't see what our game plan was. This suggests we had one. Maybe he needs to realise that is his job to make one.

We do and we really need these younger lads to step up next season. They're first teamers now and need to start making game changing responsibility on a regular basis, not just be "potentially" good.

We really really need some pace weight and power in the props. Hill is excellent but isn't fast and doesn't really break tackles or offload much. Sims is too small although good. Asotasi plays 15minutes. England is poor.

I think you will find, as first team coach, this job falls in the Lap of Richard Agar...... Surprising really when you look at his past successes.....

Need both of them gone. That team - despite its weaknesses - should have strolled into the top 4.

Sad to say, but i agree,,, Who gave the ok to sign Wheeler, make "av a toastie" one of our highest paid players, continue with the liability that is Atkins, not sign a quality prop for next season, fail to see the dramatic dip`s in form of Mona`s, Harrison and continue with the project that is England?? There are currently some awfully poor errors of judgement taking place at Warrington.... This needs to be nipped in the bud NOW!

Two of our tries scored by a player leaving and the other one by a player who Smith only plays when no-one else is available.

I thought the exact same thing.

Really? I don't see that at all. I think we're comfortably below top 4 quality.

We've got some excellent individuals but they are few and far between and for each one of those we have extremely poor players/performers, we've had no kicking game all season, we've had no leading half all season, we've got a distinct lack of pace and line-breaking power in the pack, our pack doesn't play the ball quick enough as they are quite weak and undersized bar Chris Hill or just plain slow so we lose the ruck battle a lot, and we have a lot of very young players who aren't capable of taking game changing responsibly on a regular basis yet, some of which are actually out of their depth at this level as the jump from 19s to first team has been too big for them.

That's not a team who should comfortably walk into the top four. We're no better than Hull and I actually think Catalans are better than us, never mind the five teams above us. Despite us having some excellent individuals our whole product is average.

And add to all that we don't play in a way to get the best of the team and have absolutely no structure to our attack and have very little line speed in defence. I also think we look out of shape as a team.

Oops mean't to just put I think we're comfortably below top 4quality. I couldn't agree more mate.

On that basis we have overachieved this season by finishing above hull in the regular season? Not many players out of Huddersfield and cas sides that I would have ahead of our current lot.

Perhaps he should have set up his account as the un-speculator?!

I believe from the posts on here that most would agree that the current season starting team with the right coaching and game plans would have easily made the top 4. Currently at this end of the season we are definitely below top 4 quality.

The question are where did this change and who is a fault? answer these questions and the rectification process can start. Personally I don't care who's at fault, but the hierarchy are responsible for putting it right starting with the team coaches and management. I would trust that messers Draper and Moran would get involved if they had to.

Something has to be done or we will be in a right mess at the end of the Super 8's

Top post - Surely Moran and Draper won't put up with much more of this?

This squad and coaching staff have under performed for large chunks of the season, and as you say doesn't matter who's fault it is it needs seriously addressing.

Whether we finish 6th, 7th or 8th is neither here or there, it's a shocking indictment of the season.

Snag I don't believe you got that idea from my posts
I've been saying for 2 seasons we need a quality prop and halfback. The very reason I've been harping on about R&B to address the poor backs and lightweight pack.
I thought that was blindingly obvious. Swapping a coach without team investment would make as much diffence as to not change anything.

I'm another who now questions the coaching, and management, of the squad rather than the squad itself.

Two of our last three defeats have come against Hull KR and Castleford.
I struggle to pick out a single forward from Hull KR who I would have at Warrington.
I'd have four of last night's Castleford seventeen.

That suggests this squad, at least in my eyes, is hugely underperforming.

The clamour on here to get rid of players A and B and bring in C, D and E has some justification, but I'm not convinced it will make any difference under the existing structure.

The final play of last night summed it up entirely.
Ten seconds to go and we've got a tap about 20/30 metres out.
We'd spent the entire night hopefully putting the ball up in the air and relying on good fortune to emerge and the one time when that play was the right thing to do we pass it aimlessly down the line for Wheeler to end up with it with absolutely nothing on.

Additionally, we struggle terribly when the opposition has a centre or wing with a rugby brain who can read play and snuff out our full back joining the line.
Our decision making, lack of cohesion and inability to change the play accordingly is atrocious. The most important and simplistic aspect being knowing when to just keep hold of it.

A thoroughly underwhelming season where we've ended up with pretty much what we deserve.

Hi there RD, I did say "most" as my qualifier. If it helps I do agree that the pack is a problem and needs addressing as did the HB's, which I think Sandow finally is a quality addition.

I'm suprised no one on here has questioned the signing of Lineham ? A great young English player, but why buy another winger when we have Monaghan, Ormsby, Penny & Evans as well as Russell if Ratch & Gidley will be playing fb ?

What we needed was a specialist centre, but instead we'll be using a variety of make-shift & average players who can cover the position but shouldn't ie, Evans, Ratchford, Monaghan, Hughes, Grix (if he ever gets fit or manages to remain injury free), Currie, Laithwaite etc etc.

Atkins should definitely not be guaranteed a start, but based on our squad will play every week. And I don't see King as a starting centre either.

I'm concerned.

Could it be that TS doesn't see a future for Penny?
I don't see a problem with Penny, it's Joel Monas that is completely spent. (Thank you for the years JM).

King will be a starting by the end of next season as he has all the makings of a quality centre who can see gaps and off load at the right time.
We need either Gidley or Russel at Fullback with Ratch at centre, he is not at his best at fullback. Monaghan got drawn in time and time again last night it was as though he didn't want to be one on one with Carney!! He looks past it.
The one good thing for me was Sandow looking for the runners if we learn his game over the winter and run lines off him he will put players through gaps all day.

We played our best rugby with Russell at FB this season. His kick returns and scoots set us rolling forward and direct up the ruck.

I would suggest that given performances this year, there are a significant amount of cas players who are better than the Warrington equivalents.
Shelton, Carney, Gale, Millington, Lynch, Holmes would easily get into your 17, as might the likes of Massey, Springer, McMeekan and Junior Moors.
I personally don't see the excitement about Ratchford, but I think Myler, Westwood, Sims, Hill and Clarke would get into the Cas team. I also think Sandow will be a fantastic player for you, but he needs time to settle and get to know the team.
Put the two teams together and take the best from each one and we might stand a chance.

i agree with pretty much everything you have said there... i also don't see what the big deal is with ratchford... at FB he looks disinterested, in the halves he looks lost.. he is to lightweight to be a 13.. His best position is probably in the ... Jack of all trades, master of none... If you go back to the team we had 4 years ago, he wouldn't have got a game.

There was an article on the Guardian web page saying Joel is expected to be Lineham's centre next season. As for Notts Tiger's comments,i think why Cas are doing well is because they have a coach who can motivate & get the best from his players. There was a major alarm sound last year when Clark & Sneyd left, but Powell hasn't let that get in his way.