the only 2 we need to win r harlequins and wakey imo, i for 1 feel 2nite didnt av much of an effect on the outcome of the top 8, we had a very weakened side out and next week they will be back hopefully and if/when we beat wakey we will leapfrog them back to the top 8, enjoy wembley for the first time in almost 20 years

Warrington are where they are due to their dreadful start to the season.
Under Smith they are better than the three sides just above them and it would be an absolute shame should they not make the play-offs.

You can't just assume we'll beat Wakey, they've been playing some good rugby this year. If we'd have won tonight then it would have taken the pressure off for next week and it wouldn't have been such a must-win game, which is something we could have done without the week before the final.

The fact is there are 2 trophies available, we are in the final of 1 of them, so let's not be too harsh on them.

It was always going to be difficult to win tonight, and I think it was the right decision to not take any risks over fitness. If anyone had an injury leave them out.

Our big focus now needs to be to go for the big wins over Wakey and Quins, which will hopefully see us into the 8.

If we finish 9th, then tbh, I would take that, a final appearance, especially after our poor start to the year is a positive result. Under Smith next year we need to get off to a good start, rather than the shocking first couple of months this year which has ultimately cost us in the SL, even if we make the 8.

If we dont make the top 8 our season will still be seen as a failure IMO even if we do win the challenge cup we had a good cup season but league wise we cannot be coming outside the top 8

I'm not trying to be harsh on the team, my posts are more aimed at the fans who are saying the league isn't important, which I don't agree with.

Nonsense.

If we win the Challenge Cup, it will be our most succesful season for decades.

But that still doesn't take away from our need to finish in the top 8. you cannot honestly say there are 8 teams better than us? We should be fighting to make sure we win these next two league games.

That's a seperate issue to the point I was responding to with this post.

I absolutely want us to finish in the top 8, and we are still in with a good chance. I want a full team next week, and want us to get a good win against Wakefield, which will probably put us in the 8th, and put us on a high for the final.

The two home games are realistic wins for us, and that should be enough to see us in there.

Us with a full strength team in the playoffs can be a threat.

If you win the CC you will be grinning far too much to deem the season a failure. Its one thing to say it but I doubt many could really feel too down after drunken victory at a very sunny Wembley.

I'm gonna squint all the way through and pretend its Leigh

Will you be supporting Wigan to beat Cas next week then so Wire can get in the top 8?



Nah seriously I think you should be pleased that Warrington didn't collapse to a 50+ points defeat last night because at 36-4 it was well on the cards. Those two late tries are priceless on your points difference and you've had a big favour in Castleford's points difference being wasted. I think if you don't win next week though you'll have to pin all your hopes on the cup final.

Yes you're right but if we miss out on the eight it will be because of our dreadful start, losing 5 on the trot including against Cats, Harlequins and Wakefield, three sides with whom we're now competing to get in the eight. From that nadir, winning the cup and finishing ninth can rightly be seen as a successful season - but we've got to win the cup first.

Who honestly thought that we would win last night ??

Wembley
9 first teamers missing
Opposition hurting badly

Of course we should make the 8, but as many have pointed out we didn't start the season until April while the rest kicked off in February.

We can also go to HKR and win, they may be established in 4th by then and rest players ??

In any non-Warrington game I'm always cheering the team to win that benefits the Wire most. If that's Wigan next week then GO PIES!







I don't think it's entirely fair to say that a bad start to the season has cost us the 8 (if we finish outside it). We've had plenty of games since then that we should have, and didn't, win. We lost Salford away and Castleford at home in April. We've lost to Bradford at home in June and they are all (arguably) games we should have won. There are also other games which we've been capable of winning which we haven't. We're not the only team to have a bad start to the season and in the past this has not stopped other teams finishing in the top 6. This year 6 has become 8 so we should have no excuse.

If that was under Cullen, with the lack of backbone we had, 50+ easily. I've seen our very best, first team get plenty of 40's put on them there.

I seriously dont think we will make the playoffs which is a great shame and a massive underachievement considering it is now the top eight.

The board should take the blame for that as it was the board that installed Jimmy Lowes as head coach when we all knew he wasn't head coach material.

It looks like all our eggs are in one basket for this season - The Challenge Cup. Huddersfield wont be easy though and look likely favourites what with their recent form and league position.

I think we're guilty of almost, how can I put it, continually looking back on this forum, and not enjoying what's ahead. Yes, we kept Cull too long. Yes, Lowes couldn't cut it as a head coach, but we've got to where we are now, with a fantastic set up, a quality head coach who's here for a minimum of two more years, a structure under him that I have great belief in, a team that's visibly growing in front of your eyes, some quality recruits on the way, and oh, our first final appearance in 19 years.

Brilliant.

I'm sick of wondering if we'd got Smith then or If he'd had a preseason with 'em or this or that, we didn't, get over it. We've made strides this season, we've made strides excluding results, in terms of how our club is perceived, we're certainly not as frail anymore, we're 'mentally tougher' and that should stand us in good stead for tasks ahead. If we make the eight great, if we don't as a consequence of Wembley, I'll take that.

Then we'll enter territory of Smith having a pre season, and some serious, serious belief that we can progress next year, maybe the past, maybe our belief was in fact built around hope, next year, we should have more solid foundations to found our belief on.

JWP can you please rid yourself of that picture of Prof Hawkins, I find it really off putting.

Thanks

No, he's an inspiration.

The inconsistency is still there but will improve with time. AS mentioned earlier in the thread I think more players could have taken to the field tonight but Smith has aired on the side of caution given that it would be tough to win there at full strength and we could have lost and picked up more injuries.

He has to keep the cup final in mind and I would rather we lost last night with a weakened side and brought back fit players for a more winnable game at home.

The whole "Were going to Wembley so what" thing boils my as well. Saw someone on anopther thread saying they didnt care if we got beat 50 at Wigan.

The two tournaments don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I've made that exact comment somewhere else on this board: we shouldn't have to sacrifice the league to compete in the cup or vice versa. Top teams compete in all competitions, you wouldn't hear of Saints saying "we're at Wembley so the league doesn't matter". Those people will be very sorry if we lose the cup and finish outside the playoffs. We'll have nothing then.

But we will have made a Wembley final and have improved as a team.

Whilst you don;t want to blame the start of the season for our poor league position, that is exactly what it is. The two games we lost at Easter were still very early in Smith's reign and came only three weeks after our lowest performance against Quins, so things didn't just get fixed after Lowes was sacked, it took him a little time.

After the Easter period our record is something like 11 wins and 6 defeats, which is decent form. Those defeats have come against Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Hull KR, Hudds and a disappointing one against Bradford.

So basically we lost against the top5 away from home.

The most disappointing period of this season was the start, in the first 9 weeks (under Lowes and when Smith had just taken over) we lost against St Helens, Catalans (at home), Wakefield, Leeds, Quins (by 60), Salford, and Cas (at home).

That is the period that has cost us.

People have wanted us to make finals, we have done that this year, even if we lose, it is a start, hopefully it is a turning point for the club.

Hull, Bradford and Catalans are all also at risk of missing the playoffs, so it isn't a given that we should make it, and none of those clubs have changed coach during the year, and none of them have a Wembley visit to look forward to.

After we dismally lost at Celtic both Wigan and Warrington had 14 points and we are well in the eight now. It does help us though that our points difference is over 100+ despite also having a dismal start.

Exactly my point. We've had the oppotunity to turn it around and assure ourselves of a top 8 finish and we haven't, which is why none of the league games left (including last night) should be taken lightly. The poor start to the season has had the biggest effect on our current league position but we have had ample time to turn it around. I take Dave T's point about us improving as a team and currently having a more successful season than any other for 19 years but does that mean we should just sit back and allow the playoffs to pass us by? To me that comes back to the same old Wire attitude: "we've done just enough, we don't need to do any more". Instead of thinking "we've made it to Wembley, who knows what we could achieve in the playoffs!".

Since Round 16 the fixtures have been:

Wigan
Wakefield (h)
Hull KR (a)
Quins (h)
Cats (h)
Bulls (a)
Leeds (h)
Saints (a)
Wire (h)

Wire
Cats (a)
Hull (h)
Celtic (a)
Saints (h)
Hudds (a)
Reds (h)
Leeds (a)
Wigan (a)

Taking out last night's game, the difference was one win, where you got a great in against Leeds at home, and we lost in the last second against Leeds away.

The fact that we won in the semi means that we both won the same amount of games during that period.

There's really not much difference, and it's hardly like we have collapsed.

We are still well within reach of the playoffs, with two of our last three games against our rivals.