I think so too, mainly because I have no faith in Toulouse finding enough points to close the gap. We have some very winnable games too, but I just think that if we get rolled by Catalan, Wheldon Road is the last place we want to be the week after. They’ll make it hostile and try and get one over on the man who left them and took a couple of players.

It’s a slippery slope, Hull KR at home is always tricky, Huddersfield are up and down then Wigan. Before you know it, you’ve got Toulouse at home and it’s a must win to keep the gap. They’ve got Wakefield, Leeds, Salford, Hull and Hull KR up to that point. They will fancy their chances in a few of them, especially with 3 at home in a row.

Does it look to your eyes like they're trying to impress to secure a contract elsewhere? From 22 - 8 up, at home, conceding 3 trys in 10 minutes at the end to lose the game, says a lot about the attitude of those players. Out in the first round of the play offs at home in the past 3 years under the previous coach says its not a one off with these players.

Powell doesn't look like the answer at the moment, though I'm still backing him above the players because he has a track record of improving things long term, whereas these players have a track record of underperforming year upon year.

Powell may well fail, but I'd rather we rolled the dice in a big way than get stuck with underachieving half d players as a result of appointing another Price type manager. And it may sound crazy, but I'd rather we teeter on the edge this season if it means we'll have a better chance in future of winning the GF because of a culture change.

As mentioned just, I like the idea of a DOF type appointment. That would hopefully provide a bit of long-term consistency with regard to the type of players we recruit and playing style.



At some point Warrington will be playing Toulouse, and you can guarantee between now and then that our players will be also playing to lose.

Am I the only one that thinks Toulouse may get out of trouble, or close enough to make it damn uncomfortable?

Generally, they are competing in every game, they have strengthened (and unlike us they seem to have had a positive impact), playing away to them in the height of summer will be far more of a test than the HJ ........ and they have a spirit and respect for their coach that puts us to shame.

If they beat wakey on Saturday we are in MASSIVE trouble. Wakey will overtake us at some point for sure, we just need toulouse to keep losing. That is a seriously sad state of affairs!!

Let’s face it, it wasn’t just the last 15 where I went wrong. They should have blown us away in the first half. We got let back in through some poor discipline, then found some joy when they were down to 12.

I do have questions over the fitness though, remember Catalan when we were in the game deep into the second half yet still get put away for 40.

And I don’t think players down-tooled either, just under fatigue our defensive system and communication was found to be awful.

If you'd have said this before the season started, 90% of our fans would have said that was exactly what our underperforming team need.

Some excellent debate on this thread.

No you’re not the only one - I think we’re in serious trouble. Toulouse beat Wakey at the weekend and they’re 4 behind us with a game against us. As I posted earlier - we’ve won 2 out of 13 - that’s relegation form. Our defence is pathetic - the first try on Sunday would have embarrassed an under 10s team.

I agree with this. Salford's ruck speed was far superior to ours. They had runners off the ball and they changed the direction of play causing us no end of problems. We were 1 dimensional, we made un forced errors and our kicking game was useless. We we're constantly backing off in indefence.

In the last 15 minutes Salford still had gas in the tank whilst we were running on empty, both in terms of energy and confidence.

Then we agree to differ. You have no evidence of many players not wanting to win.
There is a season of evidence so far that the coach hasn't improved any of the players, attack, defence, transition, there is no well understood game plan, no real team spirit, poor selection of players, poor PR - the list goes on.
I admire the support you are giving the current coaching set up but have you asked yourself does this make common sense.

Well i'd like to say Catalans missing Kasiano, Napa an Mcllorum for our gsme against them is good news......but it proberbly won't make a difference.

Is it common sense to blame the new coach for the performance of complacent players who've underperformed for the two previous coaches over 7 odd years?

Is it common sense to lay most of the blame at the new coach when his track record over many years at different clubs shows improvement; in contrast to our players who've underperformed for 3 different coaches letting the supporters and club down time and time again?

I'm still backing Powell, but I totally get everyone's concerns and do actually agree with many points, especially regarding the squad selection, lack improvement and attitude.

It's not a black and white issue this, Powell is certainly not blameless. But for me, the biggest problem is player culture, and if it takes an appalling season to rid ourselves of this, even at the risk of going down, I'm taking it.

For years now this group of players have taken much of the enjoyment out of watching Warrington. Apart from the saints game, I know these players arent really that bothered about performing for us fans and I just want rid, even with the risks involved. I much preferred it when little was expected, yet our players would go out and give it 100% more often. But I also get that many would rather us play safe.

It's not a black and white issue this, Powell is certainly not blameless. But for me, the biggest problem is player culture, and if it takes an appalling season to rid ourselves of this, even at the risk of going down, I'm taking it.'"

We won't go down but we'll make it competitive guaranteed

...and judge Powell's credentials on the end of last season with a team who know he's leaving? And ignore 20 odd years worth of coaching experience on which to judge?

I could say that Warrington played well yesterday... if I watched the first 10 minutes of the second half and omitted the other 70 minutes. Now logically that doesn't add up.

Tony Smith has had a bad run and been sacked, is he a bad coach? Every coach has their peaks and troughs, but I believe most appointers of coaches/playing staff will judge a candidate over their whole career and seek to establish whether there's an overall rising trajectory or stable if the coach is at the top of his game.

It wasn't so long ago that Powell took Castleford to the top of the table winning the league leaders Shield with a comparatively under resourced squad. This same side were close to relegation a few years earlier.

I also read somewhere that Powell had coached 5 MOS players, but don't quote me on that.

I'm still supporting the "wait and see" line but I am perplexed as to why we are not seeing any green shoots of recovery at all and why some players are seemingly undroppable.

I think there is a real danger that Powell could alienate the whole squad including the players who are signed up for next season. Nobody seems to be playing for him, team selections are baffling, ratchford has been great for us but never really as an organising halfback. A centre in the halves instead of an academy graduate whose future hinges on getting enough game time to develop. More alarm bells every week


I still back Powell but if the players who are staying don't then his position is surelt untenable. He needs to shake up the coaching staff, we need a new defence coach and atta k coach because at the minute both are pretty much hopeless.

How long before Toulouse start to play teams who will be safe from relegation and not in contention for play off places, once this starts we will be in a whole heap of trouble if we haven't already recovered sufficiently.

This debate is a good read, on Powell he is not for me, coaching a poor resourced group is clearly his thing, an over resourced group is not and they are showing their distain. He hasn't won anything other than the hub cap, which to some is clearly priceless and others far less meaningful. Right now losing to inferior opposition in the 1st round of the playoff is something we can only dream about.

The bad apple theory doesn't explain the performances of Holmes, who is fully conversant with the Powell methodology and has still stunk the place out.

You'd think he'd be busting a gut to try and prove his old mentor right bur he ain't.

I rather think the influx of the Powell crew, players and coaches, and their attitude has put noses out of joint; whether thats the fault of the people who were here or the people coming in is debatable.

However, I repeat - plenty of the players who aren't reasponding to Powell's approach will be here next year.

I was pretty happy when we signed Holmes, as his form at Cas had been impressive and he looked a real attacking threat there. I was prepared to cut him some slack at first this season - new team-mates, settling in, etc etc. However, the fact is that we are now five months into the season and the kindest thing you can say about him is that he has been anonymous. If you wanted to be unkind, you could say much worse.

Toulouse have Wigan, Catalan and Saints in the last 4 weeks of the year. Let’s face it, they’re already nailed on for top 4 already, so by that point they could have the cue on the rack and be play off prepping. I’d hate for our fate to be in the hands of Saints putting a team out on the last game of the regular season.

That is the worst news possible given the status quo

Can`t make my mind up, if it would be better for us if Wakefield beat Toulouse this weekend, or not, even though it means Wakefield will be then be on the same league points as us?.

I agree that Toulouse will pickup some expected wins in France towards the end of the season when teams send weakened teams over there for games that don`t matter to the away teams

This is where I am. I want Powell to succeed and I'm glad there's been an overhaul of our squad but I'm still waiting to see a decent move with dummy runners etc. We've also used 7 halfback pairings. Can we not stick with Williams and Dean if fit for the rest of the season or if Dean isn't flavour of the month then have Williams and Widdop with Thewlis at fullback. At least have some consistency.

Here's a question - if Ashton is fit for this weekend does Minikin make way? Logic, form, strike capacity and common sense says yes but.........

minikin should be dropped purely for not going for that bomb