Silly me, and there i was thinking sam was the leagues top try scorer and is Wigans highest player for try assists.

Sam
Position 1
Shirt number 1
Appearances 24
Tries 26
Try assists 17
Goals 5
Drop Goals 0
Meters 3814
Carries 489
Tackle Busts 161

Monas
9 Position
9 Shirt number
25 Appearances
6 Tries
13 Try assists
0 Goals
1 Drop Goals
2421 Meters
428 Carries
46 Tackle Busts

The rest as they say, will be history.

Very impressive but stats dont show the bigger picture.

It boils down to a very simple problem when deciding between monas and sam and I say this without the primrose and blue spectacles. The problem is can the potential man of steel do it when it matters.

As we aren't doing a who is the better player I will not bring up that monas is a lance todd winner and all sam has done at wembley is order a number two with extra fries. However, if we look at teams this season that have silenced sam tomkins, the number of teams who have shut down monas is freakishly small (with the number being, subjectively, zero) warrington X2, catalans X2, leeds X2, saints and several others have all silenced sam tomkins. The same cannot be said of monas; sorry. It is all well and good saying sam can exploit bradford's (no offense) tired defence with his stupid crab walk, but if he can't do it against organised defence, tough.

Also on the subject of stats, should we give MOS to kris welham? He has scored a load of tries in a poor hull kr team. If kicking goals or scoring easy tries is the requirement for mos then there are many who are head and shoulders above 'butter-fingers' tomkins!

Pat Richards

For me, Tomkins is the best individual player in SL, he may have 17 assists but for me, he is the best in SL at making something happen for himself, I think he's less effective and his skills aren't as great when asked to bring players into the game.

Monas, for me, is the best team player in SL, I see nobody better at creating, bringing forwards onto the ball, just basically leading his team around the pitch. He's been our driving force this season assisted by some pretty smart people like Briers & Hodgson.

I think Tomkins will win MOS, as most do. It's a little style over substance but there's no way you can detract from what Sam has done, I don't think he's been anywhere near as influential as Monaghan has, but he's moments of brilliance are breathtaking.

Stats are important but they don't show the full picture.

It's a tough one. On one side you've got two entertainers, two exciting players in Chase and Tomkins; but then on the other side you've got two all-round great players in Monas and Roby.

I think the best two players in the SL this season are Michael Monaghan and James Roby. They've got everything. Decision making, defence, metres made, try assists, try opportunities created, leadership, influence on the where the ball is on the field and where it will end up in one/two/three plays time, passing quality, reliability.... Tomkins doesn't have all these qualities, Chase has more but not all.

But then last season Sean O'Loughlin was the best player in SL but the gave MoS to Richards. So it wouldn't surprise me if someone other than Monas or Roby got it.

[The rest are a little more cloudy quote="jdrocket"

Opinions forged without full research tend to be when challenged.

What about defence? As much a part of RL as all of these stat's, Tomkins has a hell of a lot to improve on defensively. What about decision making? There are no stat's you could find for where a player makes the right decisions at the right times, Tomkins is still a bit raw in this area in my opinion. What about leadership? Again you can't find stat's on leadership, Tomkins isn't a leader. What about influence on where plays 30 seconds ahead will happen? What about performances in big games? What about passing quality? I think a reason why Tomkins was moved from 6 was because his passing isn't much kop.

Loads of aspects of RL quality cannot be found in statistics!

Sam Tomkins will win MOS because Wigan are a one-man team. A bit like us in the mid-2000s with Briers. Take Tomkins out of Wigan and they haven't got much.

I'm much happier with the balance of quality across our side. Monaghan has been fantastic but so have Briers, Myler, King, Westwood, Carvell etc.

Tomkins, Monaghan, Roby.

I think without Tomkins they're probably a top 6 team.

I said this about Roby a while back to prove that stats are not as clear cut as people think.

If Monas takes the ball from dummy half runs 10 metres then flicks a pass behind the guy who tackles him to a prop who makes 40 metres totalling 50 metres does that make him less of a player than Roby if Roby drives in a 40m scoot then gets tackled?

And I assume yours have been painstakingly researched. I can quite comfortably assure you that mine are researched greater than yours.

what about character as well.....Tomkins has let himself down on a few occasions...He wouldn't be in the top 50 of a category called "Gentlemanly conduct"

I know who I want my son to emulate on the rugby pitch...and it ain't V boy.

Well that's just laughable!

Monas, fantastic player and makes one hell of a difference to Wire.

However, a few people on here are confused about the MOS award and are manipulating the concept of the MOS to suit Monas winning it.

It's for the best individial player not the best team player.

The best indicator for the MOS is how people do in the Albert Goldthorpe award, based like the Dally M award which I think is much fairer than the MOS.

Albert Goldthorpe points - Chase 39, Tomkins 38, Dureau 34, Roby 31, Brett Hodgson 20, Lomax 19 etc

Monas is 1 point in front of Jordan Tansey and behind Bridge, Hodgson and Briers, make of that what you will.

Cloudy research - sounds a bit dodgy to me.

That can be destroyed straightaway. Look who won the Dally M Award last year and the furore it caused. Brett Hodgson is our top Goldthorpe performer, but he hasn't been our best player by any means this year. The Goldthorpe medal tends to be the best individual in a particular team. Chase for example, has scored over 60% of Castleford's points. The only indicator for MOS is the players themselves, and if the players vote for Sam then he will deserve it (can't see too many votes from Leeds though).

I wouldn't rubbish Hodgsons season due to not playing much of late and the shocker against Wigan in the cup, its based on the full season not just the last four games of the season.

I'm not. He's a very good player. I'm just pointing out that he hasn't been our best player, but according to the Goldthorpe ratings he has.

Monas not even made the dream team, yet his brother has, they have Roby as their hooker.

Oh I am sorry; you have misunderstood (may be my wording) I was saying that the matches I referenced (leeds in CC and wire games etc) no one could claim he had made a positive impact (unless with very thick pie goggles on). While other matches where he played a bit of a part (leeds at headingley etc) such as kicking a penalty, he merely played an average role due to periods of dominance from the pack. However, He still was poor in defence, was selfish and was at many time ineefective.

I watched many games in person and if not I watched them on tv.

You are free to disagree with me though