against saints???

Don't act like you are surprised. There is no rivalry between Wigan and Saints any more, it's the friendly derby.

I will look forward to next Saturdays friendly derby then.

At least I now know who to support next week then. Come on you Saaaiiints.

dropkick murphy you would rather watch wire when we never even got in the play offs, but you say your gutted ever year we don't win the grand final, how does that make sense. Friday was one top game, if you want to watch a bad game and win you should try watching football.

Just following up on my earlier mail about the final (Page 6).

Great game to watch. First half defensive effort was even better then I remembered.
TS gracious in defeat at the end
Wane's performance was mixed, but his observation about ''strange'' reffereeing decisions in the second half 'against Wigan' was simply ludicrous and came across as sour grapes.
What a whinger. He went down in my estimation - a long way.

2 other points.
Farrell is a nasty piece of work and got away with several things that should have been penalized. He needs sorting out next year.
Tompkins also is not a favourite player of mine either - loved the 'swing low' song from the fans.

O'Loughlin - for all his detractors - showed what a class act he was.
Burgess took his try well - it still needed scoring.

Difficult to say who our mom was - Ratch and Monas certainly were up there, but there were great stints throughout the team.

Now we've lost Monas but at least it's not on the scale of last year.

A fair summary fez1. For me the problem we have is lack of pace, both our wingers are slow and find it difficult to beat a man. Joel is a fantastic try scorer but slower than slow. I am hoping that we can find some pace in the off season.

Lack of size and lack of pace. Too many of our lads are too easily brought down/pushed back, we don't have enough players with pace (backs included, and we actually have no pace in the pack).

Joel is not the world's fastest winger but he's not 'slow'. In any event, if you [icould [/ifind a faster winger would you seriously drop someone who scored 32 tries this season simply because the other bloke had more speed? Neither Joel nor Rhys Evans was put in a gap once on Friday, so had no opportunity to show pace anyway. Evans recently outpaced Tom Briscoe over 80 metres (try was disallowed due to a knock-on) in the home game against Leeds. Is that 'slow'?

Now that the dust has settled a bit, how do people feel about the issue which over the season has probably attracted more discussion on here than any other - namely the half-backs? Can we go with the players we have to win next season? It's the one area where I still have doubts.

Not me, Ratchford and Bridge play hb as good as anyone if not better in the SL.
GOB has and is still improving so things are looking very good. Wheeler too is a very good footballer.

What i see is slow pace from both the wingers neither can make the line on a regular basis, i'm not against either player but for next season i would like to see some pace. Joel is not blessed with it, but as you say he scores and that's what counts. Rhys has not shown me that he has any pace he may have beaten Briscoe and that may seem quick, but I have seen Briers out pace players on an interception, but I wouldn't say he was quick either. When we have seen Atkins break through the line Rhys takes an age to catch up. If Rhys can improve his pace for next year i will be happy. I like the guy and the way he plays the game.

On the half backs, Myler won't get back to his best until we get a partner who can drive the game. GOB has come on leaps and bounds recently. He is still a long way off being able to drive the game against SL opposition. If the pack are a little more dominant in future this could change. If there was a choice between Myler and GOB I would take GOB.

I would go with Bridge at 6 and GOB at 7 and use Ratchford at Full back. I also think we should get a decent loose forward rather than just another battering ram type. I would like to see Currie given a shot at this.

In my opinion we are still trying to find which best suits us as a team... for the previous 2 seasons when hodgson was at fullback we had our 3rd pivot/HB and smith was quite happy with that which meant we could play an extra non ball playing forward/ pivot at loose forward...whereas this year (And before anyone says i'm having a go at individual players i'm not and as previously stated IMO!!!) we have played Russell at fullback & he is not the extra pivot we need...so we have tried Harrison, Bridge, Grix, Currie & Ratchford (probably missed some players) there to find our best combination along with chopping & changing our halfbacks...so Yes we have done great this year and by no means have i been disappointed with the effort put in by our players.But at times we have looked disjointed because of changes enforced or not. Great Effort by our boys

I eagerly await next season

In terms of Joels defence. Is this just a symptom of Myler playing on the right edge recently. Atkins and Riley would cop for a lot of stick for defence when MYLER was playing on the left,now he is on the right it is Joel's defence that is suspect. Waterhouse has been moved to the right edge in Westwoods absence to help this. Myler is not a terrible defender but he is no Ben Harrison either. Myler was dropped from the CC semi against catalans 4 years ago because he was being trampled on. If the Wheeler rumours are true then maybe that weakness will be rectified.

personally i think this is a bit OTT, i dont think joel rushing out of the line is a major issue, he was doing it a bit early on in the year when he started at centre, which was crazy.

At the weekend, he was doing what we normally do when wigan use the american blocker system, which usually ends up with the winger banging in on the fullback, obviously on this occasion they got it round us for a change.

I don't have a major problem with him. mind i didn't have too much of a problem with riley either, so read into that what you will.

EDIt, this probably should go on the joel's defence thread as well. all of you mentally transfer that, cos i can't be d moving this.

As far as Myler is concerned his efforts in defence are titanic just as Waterhouse's efforts have been & he will leave a big hole to fill ,let's just hope Roy has got his mojo back for next season. I think the main change on the half back front is just to leave GOB & Myler to give them a chance of developing some consistency & understanding within the partnership . Bridge is too long term injury prone to play permanently in the halves despite his class & is better at centre. Ratchford imo is a great utility player to slot in anywhere TS sees fit to provide a bit of confusion to opposing coaches who will see him as a threat whatever his position. I would not be surprised to see Russell take the hooking role of Higham eventually.

Were still desperately short of a HB with a kicking game... GOB has played well of late and has the best kicking game by a mile out of all our HB's.

If we're not going to sign an organizing HB with a kicking game, then lets hope Declan Patton comes through next season and makes his mark. I remember Smith saying he isnt far away.

Also, losing M Monaghan is another huge blow for the kicking game, as he did alot of great work with the boot.

What about if we could get a winger that was faster than Joel but didn't score as many tries?

The extra bit of pace in the side might make up for us scoring fewer tries?

I think TS maybe views the half-back issue a little differently, in that he doesn't see it as a handicap to have players rotating in the half-back positions as needs dictate.

So, I expect to see Bridge, Ratchford, Wheeler (if signed), Myler & GOB all slotting in there from time to time next year, depending on form, fitness, gameplan and opposition. My problem, and I think the half-back problem, early doors was we were trying to play players based on role and squad number rather than form. Only when we ripped that up, after the season nadir at Bradford, did we begin to establish fluidity and allow players to get some confidence into their game.

Sally, your adoration of Joel is admirable - I'm guessing you will be leading the campaign for a statue to be erected, or a stand to be named after him, once he retires, seeing as you have him up their with Brian Bevan in the pantheon of RL wingers? .....

34 tries in the season says a lot for Joel. Personally I wouldn't swap him for any other winger in RL at the moment.

100% this.

Some people eh?

We could just stick him in the centre though worst case.

Or second row along with Atkins

Wouldn't you agree that Joel is top in the try's ladder because he has a natural footballer inside of him?

Briers very often kicked the upsys and for me that was a disappointing play as for sometime looking like that was all we had in attack.
But he's scored more this season, and seldom had has the high ball been called upon.

Gary Wheeler is also a footballer, things look good for Joel next season too.