Ratchford was a senior player who had a good season in 2013 so it wasn't a case of weighing up whether to go with the partially fit senior pro for the big game v the young lad who was an unknown quantity in a big game. We had a strong squad that season and a senior player was going to miss out, selection was tough so being part fit was always likely to put you down in the pecking order.

The other context for this was that Tony Smith had been burned in the 2005 Challenge Cup Final when he picked Keith Senior for the final despite the fact he wasn't fit to play, Senior was a passenger and had to be subbed and they lost. Senior felt massive guilt about that afterwards because he felt he'd let Leeds down.

No problem with that point of view at all as i consider myself in the minority. I, however, consider him a massive problem - in that had we either an out an out attacking full back or one with brains we'd have won more finals than lost. He's figuratively 'joined the line' and been found wanting on far more than one occasion.Jack of a few trades master of bugger all

If it is a minority i am part of that too Ratticus. Ratchford was one of the reasons i started this thread. For one of our go to players and likely top earners, i don't look to him to do something when the chips are down. Recent tight games have cemented this in my mind. I worry he's going to brain fart, then be on the camera rubbing his hair and holding his hand up.

Unfortunately I have lost faith in our core of go to players. Cark being the exception to this but the rest our halves fullback and captain are the players we as fans and also the other players look to in games when things are tough. One player misfiring then it cm be covered by the other but none of ours seem. Able to pick up the flack. I mentioned earlier in post we need players whose determination to win pushes them on in games to go the extra mile to make that extra effort in defence to take advantage of any weakness or error the opposition makes. Not saying to drop them but for us to win in a gf with these players everything needs to go our way. As I don't see them coming through a tough battle with a close scoreline based on recent performances. When we started to string wins together I was more optimistic.

Agree with the above regarding the no show of our big game players and i'd be surprised if we were to lift the GF.

Next season though, with the addition of Austin and Clark, we have two class game breakers who could make a huge difference. Also, if we have signed 'a certain prop forward not to be mentioned', then by heck we'll be right up there. The only thing then is possibly an organizational scrum half as I don't think Austin fits that mould and we could do with someone to direct us around the field.

At least a few more supporters are starting to see Ratchford for what he is. Poor decision maker, prone to errors and when returning the ball aimlessly jogs up and gets dominated in the tackle. Some supporters don't seem to understand the difference between a fullback getting a quick PTB to start a set, and one being put on his back giving the opposition all the time in the world to set their line, it sets the platform for the whole set. Go watch some games on Billy Slater, he rarely ever got put on his back, and fought constantly for quick ptb.

In the big games he is found wanting, and in a pivotal position like fullback it kills us.

Bu.. but he got picked for England! Shame for England that are only 2 decent fullbacks of the last 5 ten years, Tomkins (injuries) and Hardaker (drugs) have fallen off.

Good Grief
He's by far the most talented player in this club.
Don't get me wrong, there are some great specialist players at Wire.

What denotes talent in your eyes RD? If he can catch pass and step but can't make first choice 6,7, 3 or 4 and is at 1 but can't contribute like other FB's can do, what's the point? I'll say it again, i don't expect brilliance from him when we are 2 points behind on 78 mins.

If he was an aussie import, would you afford him such patience?

FWIW i actually think he'd be good at centre, i don't like him in defence as fb and I don't like his ball returns, akin to what quickening said before.

Take Ratchford out of this side, and we're a LOT worse for it.
The one player we have, that possesses a bit of unpredictability, and some aren't happy with him.
Ratchford's main problem, is that he doesn't have ONE position, where fans can say that he's great at. He's a very good player, wherever he plays.
I wouldn't mind seeing him in duckie's suggested role, loose forward. He'll be very good there (I get VERY pee'd off seeing props played @ 13), but that further proves that he doesn't OWN a nailed on position.

Replace him with Barba or Hardaker and we're better for it. (Both of which i think we were in the market for)

We'll be worse off because we haven't got anyone to play in that position currently, but there's plenty of better options out and the club have tried in vain to get these.

Hypothetical question, if we did sign Barba, where would you want Ratch? If he goes in at 13 against a side with a big pack, can he do the muscle work in defence? I doubt it

Don't my stomach already hurts.

I find myself totally baffled by the Ratchford-baiting. He has had, in.my opinion, his best ever season at the club and over the course of the season has been one of the top players in the comp and alongside Barba, the best FB.

As lefty alluded to, he is unpredictable, off the cuff and that sometimes lends itself to errors. But guess what? I pay to be entertained and Stef on his game is thrilling to watch. He makes errors, so does Barba, and so did every player any poster has rightly lauded on here as a legend.

Hardaker? A busted flush, a liability, a bad inflence and pure poision in the club. Haven't you learnt anything from the signing of Bailey & Sandow?

If we have signed Olly Ashall-Bott. Where does that put Ratchford? I would think that Olly Ashall-Bott would play a similar role as Mitch Brown does.

Where has the Ashall-Bott rumour come from?

Quote ="easyWire"Where has the Ashall-Bott rumour come from?'" Widnes forum. www.wissl.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8546

Quote ="easyWire"Where has the Ashall-Bott rumour come from?'" Widnes forum. www.wissl.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8546

Personally I think ratchford is our second best player behind Darryl Clark. I wouldnt mind us signing a quality full back and playing ratchford in the halves with Austin. Can't be worse than what we have had this season, however if there aren't any quality fullbacks available then I'm happy to continue with ratchford at fullback and maybe bring in a new half back. Depends on who is available.

Dead right lefty. Ratchford is a good player. I think one or two must be short of something to write about on the forum. He does annoy me a bit by being a bit loose and too attacking minded but he's a plus. He could play anywhere apart from prop. I'm sure he'd go well at loose forward.

This thread has come about because we were beaten by a converted try at Wembley ,by a team that annihilated Saints on their own midden. That was Catalans big day & probably their only throw of the dice this year. In that game Ratchford seemed to be busy all afternoon helping out the halfbacks.

When we win you don't get threads like this. Such is life. It's a bit like to release a bit of frustration ... ah yes ... I'll go on the forum. Feel better now.

Helping out the halfbacks do what?

This thread was started to discuss whether we have the players for the big occasion. The same players, with less pressure stuffed Hull the week after. If anyone thinks we played well at Wembley, they want their heads checking.

And when we don't play well in key games, it makes some fans question what went wrong.

Unless we should just say c'est la vie after every loss and focus on the positives?

We didn't play well at Wembley (and still could have won) but that wasn't just Ratchford's fault which seems to be the gist of what some are saying. Barba has been exceptional this year but is off back down under, Tomkins has started to play better as the season has gone on but there aren't any other FBs that have played better than Ratch.

I'm ore worried about why so many of our players didn't play well rather than blaming individual players - that is a systemic problem not just individuals unless the reality is that all of our team just don't have the right experience/mentality...

My opinion is that we went into the Wembley game too relaxed.
I'd want them going out there hungrier and determined with a belly full of butterflies.
The instructions that Briers kept saying pre the tunnel of 'say calm, relax and enjoy the game'go against the game for me.
'Get out there and get at em' is the signals I'd be sending.

There is an upside to being constantly critical. When a player has an off day you “foresaw” it, when he has a good day you can ignore it or damn with faint praise.
Somewhere on this forum someone was applauded for saying they didn’t want to see the game played by robots, forgetting perhaps that humans have frailties.
For me one of the joys of sport is that you can never be sure what is going to happen.

22 years of SL show that it's very, very, likely that the SL title will be won by Saints, Wigan or Leeds. I see no reason for thinking it will be different this season.

I think Leeds can be safely discounted.
But even within that grouping, how many times did Leeds win when on form they shouldn’t have done.
Wigan should have won against Saints bar Hohaia sacrifing himself for the good of the team.
As for us, least said soonest mended...